“The “criteria” was designed to ensure a Labour/Green alliance.”

Or if you actually think for a second or two, you’ll realise that the criteria are ones that the Greens have liked for a long time now. Not their fault National doesn’t fit with them now, is it.

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It seems that today is the day that the Greens tell NZ that they are going to go with Labour.

Is this the most pointless news conference of the 2008 Election campaign?

The “criteria” was designed to ensure a Labour/Green alliance.

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“That wasn’t the point of the legislation which was to ban smacking and essentially make people afraid to smack (send a message)…. I realise that goal is disputed but that is on the face of it Sue Brdafords goal.”

Clearly Sue doesn’t think smacking is a good thing and she is not alone. The bill hasn’t resulted in making criminals of parents as was hysterically predicted. The Crimes act talks about assault, not smacking, and the police have the same discretion they have always had in determining if an assult has occurred. Can’t see a problem that would justify the risk of giving back the loophole to violent offenders against children.

“I would add to the last list (on numbers and overwhelmingly) The People of New Zealand.”

Most of whom have been lied to about what the real issues in this matter are.

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That wasn’t the point of the legislation which was to ban smacking and essentially make people afraid to smack (send a message)…. I realise that goal is disputed but that is on the face of it Sue Brdafords goal.

I would add to the last list (on numbers and overwhelmingly) The People of New Zealand.

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“Have you got a reference to the 60 Organizations”

For: http://barnardos.org.nz/AboutUs/Section59_SupportBill.asp
Against: http://barnardos.org.nz/AboutUs/Section59_OpposeBill.asp

” and do you still ignore the findings of the Otago Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study (rather inconvenient that, no?)”

Oh, did it say something supporting retention of the loophole that allowed people arrested for serious violence against children to get off?

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>>>immigration and population

Thanks for the info/link jh.
Sadly, it seems that NZF is the only party to be concerned about immigration numbers per se. I guess other parties (including the Greens) don’t want to ‘upset the apple cart’ by very likely having to ‘stare down the barrel’ of an xenophobic label.
I would have hoped that for consistency the Green Party would have at least made a policy statement to the effect that it recognises a need to determine a population limit in view of its environmental and sustainabilty platform.
I am aware of the current wisdom that proclaims wealth will ensure a levelling out of the population. But I am also aware that mass immigration – say by way of enviromental refugees – could invalidate that rather dubious demographic theory.

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jh – I’m not casting aspertions on the study – I just found the lead-in interesting. Thousands of international studies. If you’d like to read the article, copy and paste the intro into Google

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Note the Childrens Commisioner claimed to have had a researcher do a meta analysis which she says concluded : “it is never ok to smack”….. You can fool some of the people some of the time,… etc… etc.

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Touche!

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# greenfly Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 7:21 am

Smacking study hits at claims of harm

By Simon Collins

Groundbreaking New Zealand research has refuted thousands of international studies which claim that smacking children makes them more likely to become aggressive and antisocial.

Thousands of international studies???
…………….
which didn’t look at mild smacking and weren’t nearly as extensive
I note you didn’t provide the link so we could read the whole article:
“Numerous overseas studies have shown that children who are physically punished are more likely to be aggressive and antisocial, have poor parent-child relationships and develop mental illnesses.

But the lead author of the physical punishment part of the Dunedin study, psychologist Jane Millichamp, said the project appeared to be the first long-term study in the world to separate out those who had merely been smacked with an open hand.

Preliminary analysis showed that those who were merely smacked had “similar or even slightly better outcomes” than those who were not smacked in terms of aggression, substance abuse, adult convictions and school achievement.

“Study members in the ‘smacking only’ category of punishment appeared to be particularly high-functioning and achieving members of society,” she said.

“I have looked at just about every study I can lay my hands on, and there are thousands, and I have not found any evidence that an occasional mild smack with an open hand on the clothed behind or the leg or hand is harmful or instils violence in kids,” she said.

This story was found at: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10404809

Otago Study Still World Leader 30 Years On

For the past three decades, every aspect of their health and development has been tracked — their physical growth, their psychological growth, how they negotiated the hurdles life throws up, why they sometimes failed to negotiate them, and what health problems they had. And those are just some of the measurements made.
http://dunedinstudy.otago.ac.nz/news/childhd.html

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Mr Newman said the property industry is struggling in the current economic climate because of the “perfect storm” created by credit crunch, recession and stockmarket crash. “There is just not enough cash around at the moment and that is putting pressure on everything especially the property sector. It is one of those industries that is a big employer and a lot of jobs are at stake. We need to be able to protect those jobs.”

As part of the push the property council have released a manifesto, A Roadmap for Reform, to help with lobbying support from the government. [ not available on line?]

The report highlights the significance of the property industry as a contributor to Hamilton City, the Waikato District, and the New Zealand economy.

Mr Newman said the council will approach Parliament with its concerns after failing to get local government bodies to make changes to legislation [eg height restrictions= shade] . “We have been talking with local governments for four years and what we have seen is that local governments are unwilling to make the changes.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/waikatotimes/4722643a6415.html

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Smacking study hits at claims of harm

By Simon Collins

Groundbreaking New Zealand research has refuted thousands of international studies which claim that smacking children makes them more likely to become aggressive and antisocial.

Thousands of international studies???

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I notice you are still toting out “the Hollow Men” movie, but you haven’t noticed Don Brash’s endorsement of the “land supply restrictions” helped cause the housing price bubble argument, Nationals plans to increase immigration and the Property Councils Blueprint for the economy connection.
If a camel sneezed in Afghanistan you’d notice it.

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I note Banardos funding is down.

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Author: Valis
Comment:
And I don’t know that s59 has meant a net loss of votes either. It is hard to say, but the upside is that a huge coalition formed around passage of the repeal with 60 organisations supporting it. Many of these hadn’t worked with the Greens before and appreciated the lengths to which we stood up for child victims of violence. So I reckon we gained votes too, particularly as most of those opposing the repeal would be unlikely to vote for us anyway I would think.”
……………….
Have you got a reference to the 60 Organizations and do you still ignore the findings of the Otago Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study (rather inconvenient that, no?)

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Notice the Green Party focus is international (social justice implies we should use our land to alleviate problems overseas) whereas NZ First focus is on whether or no the locals benefit from more immigration (not just businessmen).

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kjuv Says:

Ah! That reminds me: What exactly is the Party’s policy on immigration and population (growth/size you name it)? I can’t seem to find anything under policies….
………………………..
This is from policy net:
Rodney Hide
Welcome more good quality immigrants
Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand

Keith Locke

Provide all new immigrants with a copy of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and Te Tiriti o Waitangi in their preferred language
Create fairer and more transparent short-stay visa processes
Support freer movement of people between Samoa and New Zealand in consultation with Samoa
Progressively increase our refugee quota from 750 per year to 1000 per year
Ensure migrants are provided with assistance to obtain adequate housing and health services

Rt Hon Winston Peters

Drastically reduce the inflow of migrants
Review ‘family reunification’ policies across both the immigrant and refugee categories
Ensure that those with a serious criminal conviction from an overseas jurisdiction cannot be considered for refugee status
Ensure that any suspected terrorist held under the Immigration Act is unable to receive bail
All new immigrants will need to keep an unblemished record for five years before becoming eligible for citizenship

http://www.policy.net.nz/im.shtml

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And I don’t know that s59 has meant a net loss of votes either. It is hard to say, but the upside is that a huge coalition formed around passage of the repeal with 60 organisations supporting it. Many of these hadn’t worked with the Greens before and appreciated the lengths to which we stood up for child victims of violence. So I reckon we gained votes too, particularly as most of those opposing the repeal would be unlikely to vote for us anyway I would think.

“Ah! That reminds me: What exactly is the Party’s policy on immigration and population (growth/size you name it)? I can’t seem to find anything under policies….”

kjuv, both of these policies are intended for release before the election.

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I think it was a specialist point of law and couldn’t be popularised any better than it was. The harpies that circle ceaselessly and unseen would pick it up no matter how it was framed (and I don’t mean the general public) just as they will with other issues from other parties.

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sapient – “undemocratic but potentially very harmful for the vote.”

agree with the latter (with emphasis on ‘potentially’, but not the former.)

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