by frog
The Greens industrial relations policy, which Sue Bradford launched today, has been getting good reviews from workers and their unions.
Laila Harré at the NDU said:
It would be a good thing if the Green Party is able to have a strong influence on industrial relations after the election. They understand that most workers still do not have access to unions and collective bargaining because unions were gutted in the 1990s.
Andrew Little at the EPMU welcomed the policy, stating:
The Green Party’s work rights policy clearly lays out their plan for a fair society and a high wage economy, and we commend them for that. We are particularly pleased to see support for industry bargaining, minimum redundancy entitlements and regular increases in the minimum wage.
Andrew Casidy at Finsec says:
The Greens are proposing new policies that would improve the situation of New Zealand workers. On the issues that matter in the workplace – decent pay, fair terms and conditions, health and safety and a voice at work, the Greens’ proposals offer real improvements.
And Helen Kelly at the CTU:
The Greens already have proud record of supporting worker rights, in particular through their work in Parliament to guarantee the full adult minimum wage for most 16 and 17 year olds, giving people with care responsibilities the right to request flexible work, and their work in the Buy Kiwi Made project. A Green Party presence in the next Parliament is essential so that this work can continue.
The actual policy is here. The main points include:
- A full review of the Employment Relations Act rather than ongoing piecemeal amendments.
- Significant resourcing of a separate Government agency linked to the Department of Labour focused on supporting the capacity of unions and employers to bargain MECAs (multi employer collective agreements).
- Introducing a new framework for state sector collective bargaining aimed at ensuring consistency and fairness in employment conditions across the public service.
- Introducing an additional Monday-ised statutory holiday to fall between Queens Birthday weekend and Labour Weekend.
- Working to extend Paid Parental Leave to 13 months.
- Ongoing support for pay and employment equity, improved workplace health and safety, and for better working conditions for temporary, casual, part time and contract workers
Published in Economy, Work, & Welfare by frog on Wed, September 17th, 2008
Tags: employment, industrial relations, unions, workers
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
This will really get BB and BP going into clockwork mouse mode.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
That’sall good, but I think the most interesting proposal is the shift to a 35-hour week. OK, they’re promising to study such a shift, but its the first step towards reclaiming our lives.
Oh, and wouldn’t Suffrage Day (tomorrow!) be an excellent choice for that public holiday? Our democracy is worth celebrating, and it coincides so well with the beginning of spring…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Hmm. Suffrage Day really is a good idea in principle – celebrating democracy is not something we often do (no one give me any tosh about elections being a celebration – they aren’t!).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
>>clockwork mouse mode.
Quite frankly, the Greens are slacking.
My party promises 5 years paid parental leave, half the year off, free meals at work prepared by a Michelin star chef, and compulsory bonuses for everyone.
Both my party and your party have one thing in common….
NZ can’t afford it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
(no one give me any tosh about elections being a celebration – they aren’t!)
I think the carnival atmosphere on election day disproves that. Though it may simply be because no matter which way an election goes, some politician somewhere will be unhappy about it
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
The younger voters enjoy the novelty (I did), but grimly determined National supporters and nervous Labour supporters marching to the booths makes-not-an-election-celebratory. No matter who wins, a politician still gets in.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Just say no to Unions there only purpose is to destroy companies. I mean go and look at GM and Ford, companies destroyed by the UAW which would rather keep the screws on the company and run them into the ground than actually let the companies make money.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Firstly; The youth wage should never of been made equal to the adult wage. The youth wage exists to provide an incentive for companies to take on the increased risk associated with youth workers, by eliminating the youth rate one depletes the volume of opportunities availible for youth new to the work force or who are otherwise more risky due to participation in sport or cultural activities.
Secondly; The point of minimum wage legislation is to provide a reasonable wage for all workers over and above rate given to benificiaries. The point of unions is to provide a reasonable wage for workers without reguard to the rate given to benificiaries. One can have a minimum wage and a benifit or one can have unions; having both will totally destroy an economy and disincentivise any new investments.
Thirdly; this party is ment to support equal wages for women is it not? 13 months paid parental leave will serve only to undermine this goal; that is unless you intend to allow companies to request of all female workers that they have historectomies or receive the injection every few months.
Additionally; there is no difference between a union and an effective oligopoly; both are providers of a good or service and both, by cooperation between individual parties, serve to increase prices by decreasing competition.
Though having said all that; you can have the dole, a reasonable minimum wage, and unions; the only thing is that you would have to drasticly decrease regulation of employment so the employers can fire employies whom refuse to work.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I was going to analyse the policy document iteself, peice by peice, but I came across a problem in pulling out the bits I thought were impractical or absolutly idiotic; turns out that is essentially the entire document. Guess thats what you get when you let Sue B, with her intensive union involvement, go anywhere near a employment policy document. Pure impracticality and cloud nine thinking
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I agree Sue B should not be writting Employment Policy since you is far too involved with the unions.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
>>I came across a problem in pulling out the bits I thought were impractical or absolutly idiotic; turns out that is essentially the entire document.
Same goes for the economic policy document…..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I didint bother to read that one; it was essentially a given.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
<<<<>>>
you could always shift an existing one
Waitangi day springs to mind
<<<<>>>>
Dear Sue
Could you please tell me what colour the sky is in your world ?
regards Andy Thompson
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
LOL, the maori policy document presently in the GP forum *not*even*worth*commenting*on*.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“Pay and employment equity for all workers, including Maori.
vs
Support the right of unionised workers to prevent freeloading by non-union workers.”
“Non-union workers” are a subset of “all workers” therefore I see a contradiction.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient and Turnip – Sue Bradford did not write the policy. Sure, she had an input, but the policy was developed, as are all Green Party policies, by the Green Party’s Policy Committee in consultation with Green Party membership.
I actually had a greater role than Sue in the drafting, as did several other Green Party members.
If Green Party members did not engage during the consultation process, it is a bit late to whinge now.
Turnip, the strife that GM and Ford find themselves in has a lot more to do with their failure to adapt to peak oil and climate change and be competitive, than to anything to do with the United Auto Workers Union.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Serious Question toad
Is there anyone in the upper echelon of the Green Party who either runs or owns a business
and not one of those pseudo company’s that survives on government grants or funding
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
And the site has gone and shat itself.
Toad,
I know perfectly well the process of policy development within the party; I was refering more to having, as employment relations spokesperson, a person so utterly partisan to one side of the matter. Infact, prehaps quite aptly, her handle on the party forum is ‘Partisan’.
The party is too full of ideologues for any rational policy to be produced, the voices of those whom speak logic and rationality are always quashed.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Panda,
Theres Kevin Hauge, though not a busness man he seems to run his DHB pretty well….
And on the subject of things that just are not right about the party; isint it ironic that a certain supposed environmentalist has five children?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
>>And on the subject of things that just are not right about the party; isint it ironic that a certain supposed environmentalist has five children?
Ah. That’s to increase the chances that at least one of them will solve the world’s environmental problems
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
No Toad sorry you are wrong as usual.
What went wrong for the US automakers was all the benefits and obligations they promised to pay union workers way back in the 60′s.
Those deals mean that for the last few decades they have been bleeding cash paying benefits and are still bleeding. Do you know why the US government doesn’t want them to fail, because then the government will have to pick up the healthcare and pension payments.
I agree they have been poorly run but to blame there state on Peak oil is absurd.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Well i think you are kidding yourself if you believe the solution to the environmental problems of the world will ever be solved by a bunch of communists pretending to be green.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Turnip,
Arnt you a member?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Here is my prediction for the New Zealand economy if the Greens employment policy became law,
- The NZ share market would crash.
- The NZ dollar would drop to 0.20 against the USD.
- The unemployment rate would rise to %15.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient said: The party is too full of ideologues for any rational policy to be produced, the voices of those whom speak logic and rationality are always quashed.
That is not true. I know that on many occasions draft policies have been modified to get a consensus of membership support. The Animal Welfare one (yet to be released) went through 4 rounds of membership consultation before a consensus could be achieved. I know this because I engaged on each round.
I also know a bit about the process of the Industrial Relations one, because I was involved with the initial drafting. Party members who may have had concerns about aspects of this one didn’t express them at the time it was out for membership consultation – I know that because as one of the initial drafters I got to see the feedback.
BTW, I have responded here on a public blog Sapient only because you raised the issue here. I think issues of this nature are best dealt dealt with internally within the Green Party, rather than in the public domain.
kjuv, why don’t you piss off to Whale Oil’s blog or somewhere that personal attacks of that nature are par for the course. They are not here.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
turnip28 Says:
September 17th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
> What went wrong for the US automakers was all the benefits and obligations they promised to pay union workers way back in the 60’s.
I understand that the biggest liability they have is paying for healthcare for their workers. This is partly due to the absurd US health system, and partly due to the fact that the auto makers responded to this in a stupid way, by setting up health insurance companies as parts of their own businesses. This meant that, when their sales dropped due to the poor quality of their product in comparison to their Japanese competitors, and they had to lay off workers for this reason, they were left with an unaffordable cross-subsidy.
If Unions were the problem, then the French and German car makers would be crashing and burning too, but they’re not. France has way stronger unions than the US, and French car makers have had the same quality disadvantages as the US makers. So why are US car makers crashing while French car makers are booming?
there are two differences: 1. French car makers know how to make fuel-efficient cars, and 2. France doesn’t have the US’s stupid health care system.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Yes Sapient i am.
But i love the enviromental policy of the green party
I can’t stand the “left” solutions to every other problem since they just don’t work.
I and my partner both own and run a business in NY city and I can tell you from doing that I despise left leaning governments which love to enact as much red tape as they can.
Beat this for the stupidity of Lefty’s In NY City it is cheaper to employee someone who lives in New Jersey than New York. Thats because New York City is a democratic(Left wing) city which makes the NZ red tape look like nothing.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Nope not Health liabilities, it is pension liabilites which destroyed GM.
The unions did the deals to get the workers great pension and health care policies, the problem was in order for the plans to work GM needed to keep making more and more cars. GM’s workforce in the 60′s was massive but now their workforce is tiny and their current workforce can’t generate enough cash to pay for all those retiree’s, these days it doesn’t matter if GM sells a car they still loose. GM has been bankrupt for years, they get by through borrowing money to pay for everything.
The best thing for GM and the US, would be to let them go bankrupt, all the workers loose there jobs. Then a company comes in buys up GM’s assets hires the employees at non-union plants drive the wages down and then start cranking out cars again and compete with the rest of the world.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Turnip
“September 17th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Here is my prediction for the New Zealand economy if the Greens employment policy became law,
- The NZ share market would crash.
- The NZ dollar would drop to 0.20 against the USD.
- The unemployment rate would rise to %15.”
That is exactly what Sue wants, then and only then can hard left socialism/communism be seen as the saviour.
Communists will pay any price to achieve their goals.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
turnip >> “Here is my prediction for the New Zealand economy if the Greens employment policy became law”
interesting – care to expand on your thesis? What exactly is it about our employment policy that you don’t like and how will it cause the drastic effects that you predict?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
turnip28 said: The unions did the deals to get the workers great pension and health care policies, the problem was in order for the plans to work GM needed to keep making more and more cars.
The GM is to blame, not the unions. Because GM agreed with the union to provide pension and health care provisions that were not financially sustainable in the context they could not make “more and more cars” – at least of the sort they were making.
There are two parties to every industrial agreement, and if an employer acts irresponsibly in not doing sufficient investigation to ensure an agreement is financially sustainable in the context of economic projections, then surely that is the employer’s fault, not the unions whose role is to represent the interests of their members.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Toad I repeat my Question
Is there anyone in the upper echelon of the Green Party who either runs or owns a business ?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
It would be a super-charged MP who ran a business too, that’s for sure.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
ok I will rephrase it
have any of them now or in the past owned or ran a business
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I know she has, but this seems like a familiar question.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Humble apologies for my massive ignorance, but if the dollar plummeted like that, wouldn’t unemployment be really low due to the massive growth in demand for our cheap exports?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
StephenR, The massive growth in demand for our cheap exports would be partially or wholly offset by reduced domestic spending to cover higher costs of non-substitutable imports, such as aircraft, petrol and Heinekin.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I’m still waiting for an answer as the the glaring contradiction:
“Pay and employment equity for all workers, including Maori.
vs
Support the right of unionised workers to prevent freeloading by non-union workers.?
Non-union workers are a subset of all workers….
So what you’re really saying is that only union workers will enjoy equity.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
# StephenR Says:
September 17th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
I know she has, but this seems like a familiar question.
it may be familiar question but I am still waiting for my answer
I find it amazing that a bunch of people who have never been exposed to the real world of commerce and RISK feel they are qualified to make decisions for the rest of us
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Top of my head – Fitzsimmons owns a small farm, Locke ran a bookshop, Hague was a former Chair of some local Business Association
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Meteira Tu-whatsit was a dirty ol corporate lawyer
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“The GM is to blame, not the unions. Because GM agreed with the union to provide pension and health care provisions that were not financially sustainable in the context they could not make “more and more cars? – at least of the sort they were making.”
When unions are holding a gun to your head (i.e. the threat of strike), are you really going to say no to their demands unless you know you could win? That is the main issue I have with unions; they hold guns to corporates heads, while corporates have little to counter with.
Of course, having been through the Secondary Teachers strikes of 2002, I find that unions are very disruptive to people that have no part to play. I was pretty pissed off that year because I would get a random letter – sorry, your classes are cancelled today and that was wasting my time. It was like the Stagecoach Bus Drivers strike of 2005 – imagine the ordinary people who live in Dominion Road, or Mt. Eden Road, or goodness knows where else, the people who are reliant on the bus, only to be told, sorry, no bus services. Now, these people couldn’t get to work in a timely manner, and they got into trouble.
Taking it back to a further age when unions had power, weren’t people pissed off every Christmas when they were told – sorry, no Interisland Ferry services because the workers are on strike again.
Unions were a product of the 19th Century when they were needed. Now that we have decent employment law, the minimum wage and other protections, we don’t need them anymore – they do more harm than good.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Still no answer to the glaring contradiction from the “smart” party…..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I agree that unions were certainly needed in the 19th century john-ston, but inevitably when the ‘right’ is in power, all those things you cited in your last paragraph are either neglected (minimum wage) or changed to suit employers in the name of reducing red tape burdens and what have you. Low skilled workers (e.g….cleaning staff?) who can’t just go off and work at another company don’t have much bargaining power ever – I think unions are still relevant.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Hi Frog
About this line . . . .
>
>>Improve workplace democracy and improve workers’ union representation and participation in the future of their work.
Right now there is a form of ‘corporate democracy’ in that share holders are entitled to one vote per share owned.Does the Green policy line, quoted above, imply that where a company suffers losses the workers will contribute to the recovery of those losses, in the same way as shareholders do through a reduction in their equity?
That, to me, would give the concept of workplace democracy a little more credibility.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Nandor (who has just left) is a share holder in an Auckland shop.
JF is a farmer. As was Ian Ewen Street.
Keith owned a book shop.
Many of the candidates in the top thirty are, or were, in business. It is hard to do a good job of being a business person and a Green MP and/or candidate. You need to be in another party that does not expect any work from you. We drive our MPs very very hard and we expect a lot from them.
peace
W
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
bliss Says:
September 18th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
> Nandor (who has just left) is a share holder in an Auckland shop.
> JF is a farmer. As was Ian Ewen Street.
> Keith owned a book shop.
Dave Clendon (no. 10) used to run an organic greengrocery
Steffan Browning (no. 12) established an organic fruit and vegetable growing and retailing business, and grew it to the point where he had the largest heated glasshouse set-up in New Zealand.
Mojo Mathers (no. 13) and her husband established and ran a farm forestry business (and if they were still together, she would still be involved in the business).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)