Where’d big bro go?

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Of course not, as it would be easy to argue the opposite based on the facts. I was reacting to bb’s fact free knee jerk reaction on a topic he obviously didn’t know anything about. A very different thing.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

# Valis Says:
September 11th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

> Stuff it bb, you are even more full of it tonight than usual. Not only do the stats show exactly the opposite of what you’re saying, but on this one at least the Greens are in the mainstream with all parties voting for the bill.

That’s not in itself a valid argument, Valis. If all the other parties in parliament thought the best transport strategy in the face of peak oil and climate change was to build lots of new motorways, would you follow them?

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

On the face of it, I was moderately keen on the proposal, but after reading some of that stuff…go Bradford!

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Don’t hold your breath.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

I suggest the Rt Hon BB (Bruv Party) take a gander.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Valis, you’re completely right that everyone supported it!

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/5/d/2/48HansD_20080702_00001422-Corrections-Mothers-with-Babies-Amendment.htm

Hide loves it, Collins loves it. I’ll be damned.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

“‘Parliament voted for it “unanimouslyâ€? is misleading…. things don’t work that simply. It could have been that they didn’t think it was worth opposing (not the same as agreeing with).”

Well, you don’t know how things work then. Parties almost always vote (and it is usually by accident when they don’t). If they can’t come to a position, they abstain. This bill went through the same select committee and public submission process as any other, with three readings and many opportunities for House debate. All parties spoke in support of the bill on several occasions.

“The point is about drawing a line between making prison too comfortable so it looses it’s ability to work as a disincentive to engage in criminal activity and (possible) positive developmental benefits.”

This bill is about the benefits to children and will not result in cushy circumstances for inmates. You can be assured that the Ron Mark’s of Parliament would have complained if that was happening.

“I think the baby as a human shield is an appropriate metaphor for the behavior of some of the adults involved in these sort of policies and the response of policy makers is sometimes lazy.”

Sorry, you can’t just will this one into something its not. That is a very ill informed statement. Perhaps you should go read Hansard or the select committee report to relieve your ignorance.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Thank you frog.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

‘Parliament voted for it “unanimously” is misleading…. things don’t work that simply. It could have been that they didn’t think it was worth opposing (not the same as agreeing with). The point is about drawing a line between making prison too comfortable so it looses it’s ability to work as a disincentive to engage in criminal activity and (possible) positive developmental benefits.

I think the baby as a human shield is an appropriate metaphor for the behavior of some of the adults involved in these sort of policies and the response of policy makers is sometimes lazy.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

please post my comment Frog

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Frog

When you are in that world Frog it IS black and white, no amount of hand wringing from some well meaning middle class lefty can change that.

We have a system designed by the left to keep those people down, it rewards inactivity and acceptance that there is no better life to be gained by hard work and dedication.

Until the “lower class” realise that continued handouts (which are conditional on the recipient not trying to better themselves) are counter productive then nothing is going to happen, until these same “lower class” appreciate that people like Sue B and the hard left of the Labour party actually need them to stay “lower class” then they will continue to be used and abused in the name of socialism.

If you REALLY want to rid NZ of the “lower class” then you would reward them for any attempt to better themselves and help them along the way, you would also penalise those who did nothing.

But then you might end up ending the plight of the “lower class”, and who would vote for the left then?

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

This was one of the few votes that went through on a voice vote only. There is only a party vote called when there is dissent and the dissenters ask for it. In this case, there were only ayes.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

The ENTIRE house Valis? Is there somewhere we can see the numbers for votes on a Bill? I’ve fiddled around with the parliament website, but hard to find.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

BB – Your world really is black and white, isn’t it? What a shame. It must be terribly lonely in their.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

“Here we go again, the poor criminals being supported by the Greens.”

Yea, here we go again, more straw men from bb. What actually happened was the entire House, after seeing the evidence, voted UNANIMOUSLY for the benefit of the CHILDREN.

Get over it.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

I could be wrong of course.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Would seem unlikely that a violent mother (whether to her kid or anyone else) would get custody of their kid in jail, wouldn’t you say Gerrit?

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

please post my comment

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Here we go again, the poor criminals being supported by the Greens.

Katie, frankly you are talking rot, any woman who ends up in our prison system HAS to be a recidivist criminal because of our lax Justice system, I note that you are another who seems to support a separate justice system based on race, I suggest it is you who is the racist one not the system.

Your comments on “lower class” Kiwi’s shows that you have no idea at all what it is like to come from this “lower class” (your words not mine) and like most from the hard left you are happy to use these people as pawns in your battle for power.

Having come from that “lower class” (which by the way is an insult to all struggling Kiwi’s and just shows your ignorance of how some of these people live) I know exactly what life is like and what it takes to fight (and yes it is a fight) your way out of it.

I can assure you that people like you and Sue B are NOT helping.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)