You go further than that (as do Phil etc) you project your own situation and ideas into others situations and declare that they should do as you do. That is just your opinion but Sue Bradford has tried to make her opinion law (banning smacking). It is just opinion as it isn’t backed by empirical evidence (ie that mild smacking is harmful or that there is a handier method for a busy mother).

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Greenfly, that is exactly what I do.

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Mr Dennis – you are an adult, use your mature judgement when it comes to managing children’s behaviour. I’m asking, when you feel the need to hit a child, allow your maturity to guide your actions. These recent developments are a step toward New Zealand’s maturity as a society.

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Greenfly:
“Please don’t smack liitle humans – it may ‘ not have proved harmful’ in an Otago University study, but it don’t seem right to me.”

Should we be basing legislation on the results of detailed scientific studies, or on what “seems right” to some individuals such as Greenfly and Sue Bradford?

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Ash,
Your reply about tazers has nothing to do with why I mentioned them in my last post.
If you can’t read what I wrote then how the hell do you even know what is writen in the amended section 59?
I’ll spell it out once again but that’s it.
If you think the police can’t be trusted with tazers then you must also think that they can’t be trusted to not drop a smacking charge as section 59 gives them the power to do. Which means that you must be against the amended section 59.

Stuey,
I’m taking your advice, I’ve wasted far too much time on this crap.
I should have realised that a political blog would be full of political debates rather than intellegent discussion. If I ever get the notion to get into this sort of thing again, I think I’ll just fork out the $45 and renew my Mensa membership.

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Yes strings, the unedited version of super nanny would be very interesting indeed.

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>
>>never mind that most of the same people sit and watch ’super-nanny’ and other ‘toddler taming’ programs on TV and never ONCE is hitting/spanking/whacking kids used as a method of bringing even the most appallingly behaved kids into line.

Lights, camera action – NO Cut, you can’t hold him like that, be a bit more gentle, otherwise the message won’t get through!

COME ON FOLKS
SuperNanny is a TV entertainment show. There are at least three people that you NEVER see in the footage that is shown, the director, cameraman and sound-man. The entire thing is a set up, EXPLOITING CHILDREN – and you want to use it as an example of GOOD parenting! Sheesh!

Posted by Strings. I’ve helped raise 7 kids, and spent this last weekend with another 97. WHat have youy done to gain the experience needed to hold an informed view on this topic?

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when i was a kid of about 9 or 10 i was crossing manchester street in chch with my parents. ahead of us was a family crossing at the same time- spread out over the crossing like a family of ducks and ducklings. at the rear was a little girl about 5 years old – i didn’t notice her father behind her until he quickly passed me and whacked the little girl across the top of her head and yelled ” get a move on !” at her. She got a hell of a fright as he’d come up behind her but my most enduring memory was that she didn’t cry but just carried on like a zombie – like she was really used to being hit.
My mother had a go at the guy when we got to the other side telling him it was wrong to hit little children especially about the head. I stood and watched as she got a mouthful of abuse from him and his wife ” don’t fuckin tell us what to do with our own kids”
I still remember that whack,the sound of it and the impact it made , it knocked her forward , and I often wonder about her . Imagine if she had a parent who held her hand across the road or who scooped her up in his arms and hugged her and carried her across that crossing.

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[should be]
Those who assume (by implication) that they could hop into the other parents shoes and sort the family out:…. could they;should they…..[individual differences]?
Bottom line: the politicians (considered by the public to be down there with Real estate agents) pass a law that makes (mild) smacking illegal.

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That’s where the “Suppernanny” meme comes in. Supernanny demonstrates how to deal with children without smacking.
Except that the status quo (your ordinary parents) are assumed to be the ignorant unwashed and there is no program on how they deal successfully with their families.
Having established (or at least spread a lot of doubt) that mild smacking isn’t harmful. The next thing would be to examine the role of (innate) individual differences between the family who smack and those who don’t. Those who don’t assume (by implication) that they could hop into the other parents shoes and sort the family out…. but could they;should they…..[individual differences]?

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eredwen said
“I feel sad that this thread could have been a place to share information … Instead it has been used to demonstrate that entrenched ideas and a determination to be always “rightâ€? is the core of the problem here.”

I have tried to do this eredwen, problem is the greens have determined my information on parenting is “wrong” and no corrospondence will be entered into.
I and others have expressed the posible advantages of smacking and provided evidence to back it up, yet no exchange of reasoning or information from anti smackers has been provided.
You mention you were never smacked and turned out fine,and that is great, however nobody here has suggested everyone benefits from smacking, only those children that respond to it.
Your experience is valid and I believe mine is, I resent being treated like some relic from a by gone era(I am only 31) or a product of my environment. I have done things very different to my parents and still believe smacking can be beneficial if used correctly.
Show me evidence that smacking is harmful and I will listen. If this was done properly by the greens in the first place, we could be working together by now on actually reducing child abuse instead of debating a law that won’t change a thing.

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I thought of it first Phil. Actually though anything the Greens try to do will have to compete with Sues attempt to ban smacking.

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no jh..

i’m pretty sure it’s about your lot..

..eh..?..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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I see the Greens have produced a documentary “The Age Of Stupid” about Sue Bradford.

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>>determination to be always “right� is the core of the problem here.

The core of the problem is single-minded people using the threat of state violence to *impose* their parenting practices on others.

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By the way…
When there is a fight on the rugby field why don’t the police march on and arrest them, like they do outside of the touchline? Now wouldn’t that cause a stir!

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For small children (eg in a supermarket) diversion is a much better tool than a smack.
Kids are curious, and they love new ideas … use those facts to make life interesting, peaceful and fun !

eredwen

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This thread could well go down in history as a fine example of people “talking past each other”!

It is natural that parents are concerned for their children. It is also common that parents tend to parent the way they were parented themselves, (and this tends to be particularly so for fathers who generally spend less time discussing and learning about what others do).

Have the “pro smacking” males here paused long enough to notice that this is a very male dominated thread? Perhaps this fact should be reflected upon, in the light of the fact that most of the parenting in AotearoaNZ is still done by women, and Early Childhood Education is a very female dominated profession. (“Smacking” is NOT a part of the ECE repertoire.)

However, I will follow the “male dominated” discussion and comment upon on my relationship with my FATHER:
I was brought up in the 1940′s and 50′s when smacking was very much the norm … in people’s homes and in schools.
My father (born in 1909) came from a family of fourteen children who were NEVER hit.
I was one of two children, with an older brother. Our father was an absolute master of diluting any tension with a calm face a short discussion on the situation … and he had an irresistable way of making us see the funny side of everything. It is VERY difficult to remain “in a sulk” with a parent like that!

My mother shared the same views, and had similar skills. Some of my strongest memories of my childhood are of two parents working as a team. Two pairs of eyes looking at me …
They were both teachers … and at their respective memorial gatherings (= funerals) we were overwhelmed that MANY ex students had travelled from afar to attend … (Needless to say, they had not hit their students either!)

I feel sad that this thread could have been a place to share information … Instead it has been used to demonstrate that entrenched ideas and a determination to be always “right” is the core of the problem here.

It is natural that parents are concerned for their children. It is also common that parents tend to parent the way they were parented themselves. (This tends to be particularly so for fathers).

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samiam Says:
August 31st, 2008 at 12:18 pm

One poster alluded to the ’supernanny’ etc programs that deal with BEHAVIOR without ever smacking.
………
There is an underlying assumption there that supernannys method was always best. Some parents will never need to smack and some will do it ocasionally but I don’t accept that supernanny always knows best. In one episode they coaxed a kid for about 10 minutes to follow to the car. Some parents would just ignore the kid and walk off and the kid would take off like a rocket.

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Actually I just came in from the garden to eat a grapefruit.
Let’s face it this issue has been badly handled and as someone stated on TV3 “Sue Bradford isn’t the person to sell it”.

greenfly says:
jh- “Please don’t smack liitle humans – it may ‘ not have proved harmful’ in an Otago University study, but it don’t seem right to me. Stay your hand my friend.”

my argument has been for common sense rather than dogma.

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