Comments on: The Niue Declaration http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:35:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: mugwump http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54806 mugwump Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:27:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54806 Most Niueans already live in NZ. Check the census population figures... Most Niueans already live in NZ. Check the census population figures…

]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54754 kahikatea Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:40:02 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54754 # dad4justice Says: August 25th, 2008 at 9:48 pm > Putin so he can run Russian Tanks all over the world. I presume the parties who negotiated the ETS will have at least not been silly enough to accept Russian carbon credits as convertible with New Zealand ones. The current EU ETS prohibits them so so can we. So who gets all the money from New Zealand? I don't know, but the amount of money New Zealands sends overseas will be less if emissions are paid for by consumers and businesses than if they are paid for out of general taxes, because the user-pays approach provides an incentive to reduce emissions and the taxpayer-pays approach doesn't. # dad4justice Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

> Putin so he can run Russian Tanks all over the world.

I presume the parties who negotiated the ETS will have at least not been silly enough to accept Russian carbon credits as convertible with New Zealand ones. The current EU ETS prohibits them so so can we.

So who gets all the money from New Zealand? I don’t know, but the amount of money New Zealands sends overseas will be less if emissions are paid for by consumers and businesses than if they are paid for out of general taxes, because the user-pays approach provides an incentive to reduce emissions and the taxpayer-pays approach doesn’t.

]]> By: Mr Dennis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54633 Mr Dennis Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:22:04 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54633 Gerrit: "Where are the Green costed policies" Well said. I note with great interest that so far no-one has even attempted to counter my comments on Kyoto logically, and can only resort to name-calling. On the other hand Shunda, D4J, Gerrit and BP all seem to agree. The only party talking serious on this issue is the Family Party. We would have it reviewed scientifically and have policies designed scientifically on the results of that review. This review would be completed before the proposed ETS was even underway, so we could have effective, sensible policies before anyone else's ineffective policies would even start. And we would withdraw from Kyoto in the meantime so as not to waste money, leaving it in NZ to invest in this policy. http://www.familyparty.org.nz/policy/environment Gerrit: “Where are the Green costed policies”
Well said.

I note with great interest that so far no-one has even attempted to counter my comments on Kyoto logically, and can only resort to name-calling.
On the other hand Shunda, D4J, Gerrit and BP all seem to agree.

The only party talking serious on this issue is the Family Party. We would have it reviewed scientifically and have policies designed scientifically on the results of that review. This review would be completed before the proposed ETS was even underway, so we could have effective, sensible policies before anyone else’s ineffective policies would even start. And we would withdraw from Kyoto in the meantime so as not to waste money, leaving it in NZ to invest in this policy.
http://www.familyparty.org.nz/policy/environment

]]> By: Gerrit http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54626 Gerrit Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:41:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54626 greenfly, That is not frustration, that is incompetance hidden behind doing nothing. Where are the Green costed policies for the MP's and the party to campaign on? Stop blaming other parties and people. Take responsibility and come up with workable, costed polices to sell to the electorate!!!!!! Jeez, as bad as all the others - the others dont play fair mummy!!! sooks! greenfly,

That is not frustration, that is incompetance hidden behind doing nothing.

Where are the Green costed policies for the MP’s and the party to campaign on?

Stop blaming other parties and people. Take responsibility and come up with workable, costed polices to sell to the electorate!!!!!!

Jeez, as bad as all the others - the others dont play fair mummy!!! sooks!

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54614 greenfly Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:37:52 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54614 "I dont know why the Green (including MP’s) are frustrated" classic line Gerrit! Can't see any reason at all why the stonewalling of Labour, the opposition-to-anything-green of National, the temper tantrums of Dunne and Peters, the chest beating of the coal/aluminium industry, toys-from-cot-throwing of the agricultural sector etc. etc. would frustrate a party that seeks reform in the fields that the others seek to protect/hide/exploit? “I dont know why the Green (including MP’s) are frustrated”
classic line Gerrit! Can’t see any reason at all why the stonewalling of Labour, the opposition-to-anything-green of National, the temper tantrums of Dunne and Peters, the chest beating of the coal/aluminium industry, toys-from-cot-throwing of the agricultural sector etc. etc. would frustrate a party that seeks reform in the fields that the others seek to protect/hide/exploit?

]]> By: BluePeter http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54613 BluePeter Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:28:26 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54613 >>Or be Labours poodle on the ETS? It's not over 'til the fat poodle whimpers.... >>Or be Labours poodle on the ETS?

It’s not over ’til the fat poodle whimpers….

]]> By: BluePeter http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54612 BluePeter Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:27:24 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54612 >>It seems a worthwhile direction to be moving in, economically. Does it? >>It seems a worthwhile direction to be moving in, economically.

Does it?

]]> By: Gerrit http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54609 Gerrit Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:11:44 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54609 greenfly, I dont know why the Green (including MP's) are frustrated. They have had 9 years to formulate a costed transition policy. Where the frustration? The power to sway the New Zealand public with sound and costed policies has been in their hands all along. The Greens need a marketing campaign (ah, wait the electioneering campaign is a good place to start) to persuade the New Zealand voter that the withdrawl from Kyoto and the implementation of Russel's neutral taxation policies will be the way forward and worth voting for. Are the Greens up to the challenge? Or be Labours poodle on the ETS? Lets see the fervour of the Greens mettle. greenfly,

I dont know why the Green (including MP’s) are frustrated. They have had 9 years to formulate a costed transition policy.

Where the frustration?

The power to sway the New Zealand public with sound and costed policies has been in their hands all along.

The Greens need a marketing campaign (ah, wait the electioneering campaign is a good place to start) to persuade the New Zealand voter that the withdrawl from Kyoto and the implementation of Russel’s neutral taxation policies will be the way forward and worth voting for.

Are the Greens up to the challenge? Or be Labours poodle on the ETS?

Lets see the fervour of the Greens mettle.

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54606 greenfly Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:15:32 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54606 BP - compared to the cost of not doing something? It seems a worthwhile direction to be moving in, economically. The mechanisms will be many and varied and there is no doubt, Gerrit, that the Greens have the best suggestions of all the parties, to make it happen successfully. That 'billion dollars' has been around for a while :-) and I fully agree, should have been used for 'getting New Zealand carbon neutral'. The situation you describe Gerrit, is a great frustration to the Greens (MP's and members) that have been calling for specific actions on the issues for soooo long. BP - compared to the cost of not doing something? It seems a worthwhile direction to be moving in, economically. The mechanisms will be many and varied and there is no doubt, Gerrit, that the Greens have the best suggestions of all the parties, to make it happen successfully. That ‘billion dollars’ has been around for a while :-) and I fully agree, should have been used for ‘getting New Zealand carbon neutral’. The situation you describe Gerrit, is a great frustration to the Greens (MP’s and members) that have been calling for specific actions on the issues for soooo long.

]]> By: BluePeter http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54605 BluePeter Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:52:54 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/25/the-niue-declaration/#comment-54605 >>Shunda B. No one, if we stop emmitting And what is the cost to the economy of doing that, hmmmm? >>Shunda B. No one, if we stop emmitting

And what is the cost to the economy of doing that, hmmmm?

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