Comments on: National looks short of cash http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:59:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: jh http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54290 jh Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:46:08 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54290 Owen McShane says: So why do you connect road building to oil supply. No one else has done so. http://www.newurbanism.org/sustainability.html Owen McShane says:
So why do you connect road building to oil supply. No one else has done so.

http://www.newurbanism.org/sustainability.html

]]> By: aw http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54181 aw Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:17:05 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54181 Actually, if you're going to borrow to buy a new car, it's very good advice to put it on the mortgage rather than finance it separately from the house. Houses are such good security that your interest rate will be about half that than if you secured a loan against the car itself. If you can't afford to service the loan on the car, then you shouldn't secure it against the house, but then you shouldn't be buying the car anyway. Actually, if you’re going to borrow to buy a new car, it’s very good advice to put it on the mortgage rather than finance it separately from the house. Houses are such good security that your interest rate will be about half that than if you secured a loan against the car itself. If you can’t afford to service the loan on the car, then you shouldn’t secure it against the house, but then you shouldn’t be buying the car anyway.

]]> By: joy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54158 joy Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:51:37 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54158 It seems to me to be fair and reasonable that where a toll road, highways or byways, is intended then a reasonable alternative must exist. This question comes up, from time to time, in our region, when pipe dreams of a road tunnel through the Rimutakas is mentioned. Should Transmission Gully ever get off the plans and into reality, I guess it could be tolled as the coastal route will continue to exist unless the oceans rise significantly. It seems to me to be fair and reasonable that where a toll road, highways or byways, is intended then a reasonable alternative must exist. This question comes up, from time to time, in our region, when pipe dreams of a road tunnel through the Rimutakas is mentioned.

Should Transmission Gully ever get off the plans and into reality, I guess it could be tolled as the coastal route will continue to exist unless the oceans rise significantly.

]]> By: Kevyn http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54154 Kevyn Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:59:23 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54154 joy, That rule was introduced by the Land Transport Management Act 2003. The rules prior to that had been very simple 1) no tollgates on State Highways 2) tollgates on local authority roads or bridges must be authorised by the Governor General. That section of the Public Works Act was repealed in 1978 by an amendment to the Local Government Act. I'm not sure if right to erect tollgates was revoked or merely shifted to the LG Act. As an aside, special Acts weren't needed to levy tolls on the Auckland abd Tauranga harbour bridges or the Lyttelton Tunnel but they were needed to create local authorities exempt from complying with the Local Government Loans Act. joy, That rule was introduced by the Land Transport Management Act 2003. The rules prior to that had been very simple
1) no tollgates on State Highways
2) tollgates on local authority roads or bridges must be authorised by the Governor General. That section of the Public Works Act was repealed in 1978 by an amendment to the Local Government Act. I’m not sure if right to erect tollgates was revoked or merely shifted to the LG Act.

As an aside, special Acts weren’t needed to levy tolls on the Auckland abd Tauranga harbour bridges or the Lyttelton Tunnel but they were needed to create local authorities exempt from complying with the Local Government Loans Act.

]]> By: joy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54137 joy Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:49:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54137 I was of the understanding that where a new road (perhaps a by-pass) is to be built using tolls as part-tpayment, then a reasonable, toll free alternative must be available. That is to say, I had been led to believe that this was a long standing 'rule' in a relevant transport or highways act. I was of the understanding that where a new road (perhaps a by-pass) is to be built using tolls as part-tpayment, then a reasonable, toll free alternative must be available. That is to say, I had been led to believe that this was a long standing ‘rule’ in a relevant transport or highways act.

]]> By: Owen McShane http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54095 Owen McShane Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:09:23 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54095 The Romans built a great network of roads long before anyone had heard of oil. We still use most of them. The roads in most of the cities in the world were built before anyone had heard of oil let alone the motor car. Why do you think they built them? For future generations? So why do you connect road building to oil supply. No one else has done so. The Romans built a great network of roads long before anyone had heard of oil.

We still use most of them.

The roads in most of the cities in the world were built before anyone had heard of oil let alone the motor car.
Why do you think they built them? For future generations?
So why do you connect road building to oil supply. No one else has done so.

]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54092 Sapient Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:42:19 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54092 Buses and bikes use the road too, and they work better on good roads (you know, like those ones we dont have in new zealand), though I think what the Greens are trying to get at is more to do with capacity than lack of need for roads themselves, after all, a bus with 30 people on it takes up significantly less capacity than 15 cars. Buses and bikes use the road too, and they work better on good roads (you know, like those ones we dont have in new zealand), though I think what the Greens are trying to get at is more to do with capacity than lack of need for roads themselves, after all, a bus with 30 people on it takes up significantly less capacity than 15 cars.

]]> By: Strings http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54087 Strings Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:17:55 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/08/21/national-looks-short-of-cash/#comment-54087 An interesting post indeed. With regard to your comment > >>"generally it’s not great advice to use national debt to fund roads just as we hit peak oil" I am confused as to which general stated this, as this is the first time the proposition has been made, and there is still vast debate on whether or not we have passed the half way point on recoverable oil. What is certain is that some identified oil fields that were uneconomic at $99 per barrel (such as parts of the Athabasca Oil Sands in Canada) are very economically viable at $120 and above. Another area that we might debate is the comment > >>"No matter what people’s views are as to whether roads rather than public transport is the appropriate response to our transport needs". This leads me to a quandary as to what is meant by public transport that doesn't involve roads! Certainly the cost of extending the current rail network to every town, village and hamlet is way beyond the economic feasibility of New Zealand; as is the cost per passenger mile that would be incurred to operate such a network in a manner that eliminated the need for personal transport. The same, with nobs on (as we used to say when I was a kid), goes for air-transport; and of course sea transport has all the obvious limitations. What that leaves for public transport is some form of bus, I think. Of course, we could go really off the chart and make the roads themselves do the moving so no individual transport vehicle is required! Not simple, but with a combination of light and wind electricity, supported by substantial storage capability, such a system might be feasible. It would be interesting to get some engineers to look at it I suppose! Clearly though I've missed something in you thinking though oh wise one, so I look forward to your reply with stressed anticipation. An interesting post indeed.

With regard to your comment
>
>>”generally it’s not great advice to use national debt to fund roads just as we hit peak oil”

I am confused as to which general stated this, as this is the first time the proposition has been made, and there is still vast debate on whether or not we have passed the half way point on recoverable oil. What is certain is that some identified oil fields that were uneconomic at $99 per barrel (such as parts of the Athabasca Oil Sands in Canada) are very economically viable at $120 and above.

Another area that we might debate is the comment
>
>>”No matter what people’s views are as to whether roads rather than public transport is the appropriate response to our transport needs”.

This leads me to a quandary as to what is meant by public transport that doesn’t involve roads! Certainly the cost of extending the current rail network to every town, village and hamlet is way beyond the economic feasibility of New Zealand; as is the cost per passenger mile that would be incurred to operate such a network in a manner that eliminated the need for personal transport. The same, with nobs on (as we used to say when I was a kid), goes for air-transport; and of course sea transport has all the obvious limitations. What that leaves for public transport is some form of bus, I think.

Of course, we could go really off the chart and make the roads themselves do the moving so no individual transport vehicle is required! Not simple, but with a combination of light and wind electricity, supported by substantial storage capability, such a system might be feasible. It would be interesting to get some engineers to look at it I suppose!

Clearly though I’ve missed something in you thinking though oh wise one, so I look forward to your reply with stressed anticipation.

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