I don’t think 8 to 1 is a bad number actually. Now people care more about their weight and health than their taste. We’re now influenced by the Eastern culture with vegetables, fruits and fish sauce. And even their bbq is really different, not too much smoke or oil or fat, more vegetables. I love that, we should have more milk but less meat.

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Possibly because the dairy farmers have moved from the North Island down to Southland and don’t realise how bad the weather can get? I know just what you are talking about, I live in Canterbury myself and can think of a few similar examples here. Mainly pine trees and gorse being pulled out however. Most farmers know the value of shelter, but as I said there are exceptions, especially when someone is new to an area and unfamiliar with the reason why there were so many shelterbelts planted in the first place.

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Mr Dennis – the exceptions have moved to Southland then! Flaxes are being torn out left, right and centre. Shelter from the wind means less energy lost to shivering, which means less pasture needed for stock which means less fertilizer needed to force grass growth which means less eutrification of the waterways and table which means less criticism from the townies as they peer at the crappy water in their tumblers. It isn’t, as they say, rocket science. Why then, are the shelter belts tumbling???

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jh:
You are right that shelter is good under pivots. Flax is ideal, because the irrigation nozzles don’t get stuck in it and it does well with the irrigation. Pasture production and stock performance is generally better with shelter, provided you don’t lose too much land area to the shelterbelts. Most farmers know this instinctively, but there are always exceptions.

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This guys latest book should interest Greens:
8:40 Feature interview: Brian Turner

The poet and activist philosophises with Chris Laidlaw about fishing, fighting for the planet, and putting on a front – and he reads some poetry.
Produced by Christine Cessford

He say’s Central Otago has been “raped and plundered” Hates Queenstown
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday

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This is o/t but interesting
1. A frog is cold blooded, when you heat water it’s activity will increase and you will have trouble keeping it in the water.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/sat/2008/08/09/dr_phil_bishop_why_care_about_frogs

2.
The medieval marvel: 14th century Hungarian stove cuts my monthly gas bill to just £5

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041812/The-medieval-marvel-14th-century-Hungarian-stove-cuts-monthly-gas-just-5.html
hat tip Energy Bulletin

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I think we ought to take thought for our brother and sister animals: the pivot irrigation systems require all shade to be removed and since cows are worth so much money how much money would removable shade cost?

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Nup, no need to get so hyped up.
I would suggest that by decreasing or eliminating the subsidies – on extra care for those with severe genetic diseases that stop them from participating in paid work – one further increases the downsides of breeding when one know that doing so my potentially land them with a life time of costs and further incentivises both abortion and adoption.
Additionally if you apply it to drug babies it may encourage mothers to be more careful about the chemicals they take in from their surroundings.
The market does the rest quite easily. Unfortunatly the dole and such distorts the natural inclination for inteligence to spread throughout the population. Ever watched “Idiocracy”? As a movie its not very funny, but the core story rings so true in todays society.

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Sapient said: ‘hitler-style’ eugenics is mearly one particular subset of eugenics, the word has mearly become a ‘dirty word’ because of its association with hitler, the feild itself is perfectly valid and by no means does it need to entail the meathods used by hitler.

So, let me get this right Sapient. You don’t think it is okay to actively kill those you think are lesser mortals than you, but it is okay to starve them or forcibly sterilise them to stop them from procreating. Is that what you are saying?

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which non-rating party are you a candidate for..?..denny..?

..enjoy your five minutes of whatever..

..eh..?

..and then back to compassionately cutting bits off..letting those lambs freeze to death..

..if you don’t sell them to flesh-addicts..

…eh..?

..to make your money..eh..?

..now i know you don’t see yourself this way..

..but coming from my ex-flesh-addict perspective..

..you are a merchant of pain/death..

..and an environmental vandal..

..in fact you would be doing less harm if you were pushing heroin..

..people choose to take heroin..eh..?

..you just brutalise/exploit those animals/living creatures….

..with nary a care/thought..

..eh..?

..you dennis..are a remarkably un-evolved human being..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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No toad, not QED; Logical fallacy on your part.
Just because something belongs to a particular genre does not mean it also belongs to the same sub-genre as another member of that genre.
‘hitler-style’ eugenics is mearly one particular subset of eugenics, the word has mearly become a ‘dirty word’ because of its association with hitler, the feild itself is perfectly valid and by no means does it need to entail the meathods used by hitler.
I thought you said you did philosophy? Do you not remmber that affirming the consequent is not valid deductive logic?

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“..And you take a remarkably cavalier attitude to the murdering of carrots or whatever it is you eat…”

oh har bloody har..!

q.e.d..dennis..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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QED, Sapient.

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Lol, Toad, that post was to get alittle discussion going, though it didint really acheive that.
And please not, toad, that I stated i was not advocating hitler style eugenics; their are plenty of other forms which dont involve going out and killing people. Eg encouraging those with high ability to breed and tose with low ability to not. I remmeber hearing that france and norway(?) use this to some extent.
I was mearly suggesting that we remove the distortion of our breeding pool by ceasing to artificially support tose whom would otherwise be unable to survive to procreate.

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Sapient said: I am not suggesting hitler style eugenics by any means…

Um, Sapient, I think you actually did, 3 days ago back here:

I advocate eugenics, you think i care about someone being ‘entitled’ to extra money cause their a F#$K up?

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phil u – farmer ‘mistreatment’ of animals is often balanced by thoughtfulness and compassion, paradoxically. They find themselves in an awkward position, shear and expose the sheep to the cold, or leave the fleece on and create a shrek. It needs a big rethink all round. Our imported grasses need a browser. Are you going to deny them that?

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It is more compassionate to mules than to allow the sheep to develop flystrike and die slowly, but it is a nasty practice that can be eliminated by breeding sheep with less wrinkly skin. Most breeds don’t need it, and those that do (merinos) need to be bred better.

Tailing isn’t that bad but sheep do do better when their tails are left on, in general, for a number of different reasons.

And you take a remarkably cavalier attitude to the murdering of carrots or whatever it is you eat.

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mr dennis..your take on ‘compassionate mulesing/tail cutting off..?

..do you give them painkillers..?

..or a kneck-rub..?

and can i say..what a remarkably cavalier attitude you have to the suffering/mis-treatment/killing of ‘feeling’ sentient beings..

..that you make your money from..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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Sorry about that, somehow I got my wires crossed.
Oh, that wasint a very fun debate, lol.

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Sapient, I am NOT standing for kiwi, but for the Family party – big difference!
http://www.familyparty.org.nz

It is not for us to dictate whether a couple can have children or not, that is their choice. Having said that if a couple chose not to have children for genetic reasons, good on them! They can adopt and help a child in need.

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