Bailey Kurariki - restoration is the priority
Much was made yesterday of the arrest of Bailey Junior Kurariki for breach of bail. Apparently
the state machinery used a helicopter and 30 police officers to go to his house and take him away. Apparently the cops didn’t even bother to search the house, which is odd given the breach was reportedly for smoking pot.
If its proved to be even partially true that a large number of cops were used, it shows how pathetic the rhetoric of rehabilitation of offenders into the community really is. This person, now a young man, has been punished for his actions. In accordance with the social contract that allows the state to punish people for their crimes rather than leave it to vigilantism, he is now entitled to have the chance to live as normal a life as he can.
If the police action was as bad as reported, then I agree with Kim Workman’s comments yesterday morning on Morning Report
that the police response was a means to humiliate him and further disenfranchise him from the community.
Surely we want to make sure that he has a vested interest in the community such that he would never find himself in the situation he was in as a child. Those intent on dehumanising every person who commits a crime simply create more criminals and place everyone at great risk.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Two words
MICHAEL CHOY
dont forget about him!
July 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am
‘done his time’ i’m sure would be a worthy response to that.
Odd thing is, he’s still only all ‘alleged’ to have breached parole…do they have to go to court with this too?
July 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am
If police intellegence had the scenario that he was in a house with 30 Mongrel Mob members then following OSH regulation would have required that police turnout.
Maybe the intellegence was wrong, who knows.
What part of the parole provisions did the paroly not understand?
No drink, no pot means no drink, no pot.
So we are to believe he is restored to a full member of society yet he cannot abide by some simple rules set by society to intergrate him back?
He is back wher he needs to be until he understands the responsibilty he has to society to prove he is fit to be released.
And if that released is subject to (rightly or wrongly) no drink, no pot. So be it. It is his responsibilty to follow that edict.
He gets no sympathy from me.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Oh ok lets take a chance shell we
two more words for you Stephen
Graeme Burton
July 29th, 2008 at 11:22 am
“This person, now a young man, has been punished for his actions. ” Really ? 5 years in jail for a cold-blooded pre-meditated and random murder of a hard working, tax paying citizen: a pathetic sentence.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Actually all sentances for any crime should be life, since the only reason for allowing someone out of prison is because they intend to no longer violate people’s human rights. However in NZ we have maximum sentances which means i can perform a crime go to prison for the maximum sentance and then get out with the intention to commit more crimes.
The term of the sentance is a punishment but the reason to let someone out of prison is because the individual has agreed that they will no longer violate other peoples rights.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:37 am
We already have one of the highest imprisonment rates in the developed world, and the hang em high brigade have done well under the present Labour Government. For me, the most important thing is making a prisoner realise the extent of what they’ve done, and and recognise their guilt and shame. No use putting someone in for ten years and having them come out with the same dangerous attitudes that put them in there. And currently the system isn’t geared to do that - it’s a university for crime.
Unfortunately, repentance and changed characters don’t sell “newspapers”, or make good talkback radio.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Gerrit said: If police intellegence had the scenario that he was in a house with 30 Mongrel Mob members then following OSH regulation would have required that police turnout.
But the evidence, Gerrit, is that your scenario was not the case. Kim Workman reported that Kurariki was at home with his family and had been keeping away from past criminal associates. Now, Kim Workman served 16 years in the Police, so I would suggest he does know a little about police operations, and his concern was that it was, in the circumstances, totally OTT.
Panda - if you trot out the name “Graeme Burton” every time someone convicted of a violent offence is paroled, you end up with a situation where no-one is ever rehabilitated and therefore no-one is ever paroled.
A very unfortunate series of Corrections, Parole Board and finally Police stuff-ups saw Burton firstly wrongly paroled and then wrongly permitted to remain at large when he had clearly breached his parole.
If there is evidence that Kurariki is a murderous and recidivist psychopath like Burton, then he should remain behind bars for life. But decisions about parole must be made on the basis of evidence, not gut response to one very evil individual having been wrongly released as a result of official stuff-ups and murdering again.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
whether or not there was any pot, an allegation is sufficient to beat up on Bailey Kurariki. Pot of course is a key trigger for much public sanctimony
how are you supposed to integrate BJK as a good little law-abider into a society where pot (The ubiquitious crime that isnt a crime) is everwhere
as tuariki delemare said as minister of health 11 years ago, ‘although people know its illegal, no one actually believes its a crime, so when you’re faced with that sort of attitude, youve got problems’…
set up to fail like a hundered thousand other young Maori - alienated and anti-social long before that fateful night when Michael Choy was killed.
the best thing to centre the moral compass of Baily Junior, and the rest of NZ is for some restorative justice (decriminalise us) and get rid of this pervese, counter-productive hypocritical illicit status. Better start practicing your cannabis law reform speils frog, theres an election coming up.
here’s a few cannabis related social justice tips from the Auckland Council on Civil Liberties:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010611120322/newsroom.co.nz/story.php?S=2 6031
July 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
weed-eater: Maori can keep on trotting out the same old colonization excuses for their mis-behaviour but eventually they need to move on.
Hey my forefathers were Scots- done over by the English while the Maori were still living on coral atolls in the middle of Pacific. Think it will do me any good to whine ? No. Get over it.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
toad,
Like I said, I dont know the Police intellegence they were working on and with respect, neither does Kim Workman (his lawyer?). Unless he is a serving member of the Police intellegence branch.
I’m just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Weedeater,
Irrespective what your opinion is on pot. The terms of parole were quite clear. He broke them, he goes back to serve more of his time. If he did not like the terms of his parole he should not have accepted them.
Does not say much for his minders that either they did not know the terms of his parole or thought so little of them that they allowed pot near the paroly.
Let see some people take responsibilty here. Either the parole (who could have phoned his probation officer to expalin his minders were not looking after him properly) or his minders.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Does ‘allegations’ mean something different to everyone else?
July 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Bryan Spondre said: Hey my forefathers were Scots- done over by the English while the Maori were still living on coral atolls in the middle of Pacific
So, good to see the Scottish National Party give the parties of the colonists a good thrashing in the Glasgow East byelection, eh Bryan!
Oops, straying off-topic
July 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Panda - if you trot out the name “Graeme Burton� every time someone convicted of a violent offence is paroled, you end up with a situation where no-one is ever rehabilitated and therefore no-one is ever paroled.
frog
Parole is a privilege not a right ,you break it bye bye no second chance
Prison should be about punishment not just about rehabilitation
5 years is not long enough for murder, the little scumbag should not have been out for at least 15 years
I don’t agree with the death penalty mainly because I don’t trust the police (or human nature )enough for them not to make mistakes and once someone is dead there is no second chance
But for certain crimes IMHO the key should be chucked away until there is no chance of reoffending
July 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
“Prison should be about punishment not just about rehabilitation”
Why rehabilitate at all?
July 29th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Panda said: But for certain crimes IMHO the key should be chucked away until there is no chance of reoffending
I almost agree, but I’d say it should be certain criminals, rather than certain crimes, where the key should be chucked away. The criminals for whom the key should be thrown away are those like Charles Manson and Graeme Burton who, while legally sane, have psychopathic or sociopathic personality disorders and will therefore always be likely to reoffend.
The problem is, often those disorders don’t seem to be assessed until it is too late.
July 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Meyt
While I deplore your sickly liberalism I applaud your bravery in letting the electorate know that you favour the rights of criminals over the rights of victims.
It is good that we are now all aware that you favour spending millions trying to rehabilitate these poor wee souls (after all they only murdered somebody, its not like they spent money on a campaign speaking out against the Green party)
I am also impressed that you can admit that this low life scum bag managed to con you all, remember how he told us all that he had found god and his Maori culture?.
This low life should have been put to death years ago, failing that he should still be locked up and he should spend his days waiting to die.
July 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
toad: “Oops, straying off-topic” That just goes to show that popular does not equal rational.
Straying further off topic: is Nationalism a core part of Green Party philosophy, it seems to underpin some policies: e.g. the Buy Kiwi Made Campaign ?
Back on topic: what do the Green Party have against the NZ Police ? Is your anti-Police position just dog whistling or do you actually have real concerns about the police?
July 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
BB said: …you favour the rights of criminals over the rights of victims.
And just how is locking up Bailey Kurariki for the rest of his life going to confer any rights to Michael Choy’s family, BB? Apart from making them, and the rest of us, contribute from our taxes to keeeping him in prison when he could be out earning a living.
For me it’s simple - if he is assessed as being sufficiently rehabilitated as to not be likely to commit further violent offences, he should be paroled. If not, he should remain locked up.
July 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Bryan. dont shoot the messengers. my point is we’ve got a self-fulfillin policy in NZ called criminalisation. as we sow so shall we reap…
Gerrit. My opinion on pot happens to correspond pretty closely with the green party policy actually.
The only differnce is weedeater actually analyses and advocates the policy - - linking the reform imperative to our social problems in NZ. And the auckland council on civil liberties did exactly that as well (as linked above)
Lord i wish i’d hear Nandor or Meyt or Russell for that matter applying their obvious intelligence to this issue….
Dont we want to have a tolerant, just and crime-free society where people contribute postively? It aint going to happen when were all slave to an inequitable law that tells us we are too stupid to know whats good for us. Hundreds of thousands of kiwis mock this law every day when we light up (or cook it up as i do).
9 out of 10 of Bailey Kurariki’s mates would be into weed, and his minders well know its a general ‘blind eye’ situation in our society - and in our prisons and amongst social workers and even a&d sector - because guess what, WE ALL KNOW HERB IS GENERALLY IS PRETTY DAMN INNOCUOUS when used in moderation in a safe set and setting.
Do we really think in this context Bailey Korariki is going to be a good little boy and obey the silly rules? IN the context of rules in disrepute, ‘responsibility’ is a hard ask.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
“WE ALL KNOW HERB IS GENERALLY IS PRETTY DAMN INNOCUOUS”
Do we ? Really ? In any case that is not the issue, he broke the conditions of his parole end of story.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Bryan - the SNP reference is my personal one - nothing to do with Green Party policy.
I think you’ll find that the Greens support the principle of self-determination (rather than nationalism) - this can be exercised through any of devolution of political power, autonomy or independence.
Buy Kiwi Made is more about sustainability than about nationalism - about not carting goods half way around the world (with consequent carbon footprint) if, and only if, they can be produced sustainably here. It’s alos about having the economic security of local production as a safeguard against adverse international events.
Back on topic - the Greens have nothing against the Police when they do their job properly, which most of the time they do. But it does seem somewhat bizarre overkill if, as Kim Workman, a former police officer himself, claims, 30 police and a helicopter were used to arrest one parolee at his family home whose alleged crime was nothing more that smoking cannabis.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
If he’s going to divert the issue he needs a graph!!
)
July 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
not only innocuous, but frequently beneficial . any way i meant ‘those of us in the know’
- come on Bryan, you must have been a young Nat once upon a time!
July 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
weedeater,
it is not whether pot should be should not be illegal. And it is not to do what the Green party thinks is right or wrong.
The question is
If a paroly breaks parole should he go back to Jail?
The terms of the parole was no pot (does not matter if it is legal, what the Greens think, or what you think).
Care to address that issue?
July 29th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
toad,
Question remains, do you agree that if you break parole the paroly should ge back to jail?
And who is this fountain of Police knowledge Kim Workman? And what did he know about the Police intellegence regading the arrest of the paroly?
Notice you call him an ex policeman. You prefer the word of an ex policman not impartial to the case, or a serving policeman about to carry out a summons?
July 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
weedeater: while I have had other vices I have never seen the point in inhaling the smoke from any kind of burning plant.
“Kiwi Made is more about sustainability than about nationalism” - that doesn’t seem to be the message contained in the Buy Kiwi Made TVC with its tagline “Buy Kiwi and we have got it made”. Sounds like nationalism to me, and very similar to the embarrassingly xenophobic Kiwibank TVC’s and billboards.
toad: the Greens do seem to tacitly support illegal activities however: cannabis use, eco-terrorism, and in the recent Tame Iti case: real terrorism.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
weedeater: I’m not even an old Nat. The National party are way too far to the left for me.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Gerrit -this parole breach and over the top police raid etc like so many problems (including arguably Kurariki’s orginal criminality) is all predicated on the illicit status.
if pot was legal (r18 etc, in line with Greens policy), it would have been much easier for Kurariki to respect his parole conditions (just as it would be much easier for me and half a million other outlaw Kiwis to respect politicians, judges and police).
But then if pot was legal and merely a health issue it would no longer be the big justice-system pariah it is (imagine us out of the dark ages) and it would likely not need to have been a parole condition.
And chances are Kurariki would not have been a junior alienated killer associate in the first blimmin place had he not grown up in an environment where rebellion is strongly conditioned by law in disrepute.
It is eternally daft to be grappling with sub-problems (eg the technicalitys of the parole breach) when there is a much much bigger thing under the water (criminalisation inequity).
July 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Weedeater- I detest paying income tax so that Government can squander it on WFOPF income transfers and employing overpaid policy analysts. However legally I cannot avoid paying tax without being fined,prosecuted etc etc. Cannabis is illegal - get over it.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
weedeater,
Lets try it from the other angle.
What would the parole have to do in your eyes to warrant the parolies re-arrest?
Pot smoking is Ok,
What else is OK and what is not OK in your eyes?
July 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
…but with cannabis legal you would be paying significantly less tax and the ‘gateway’ effect would be removed so their would most likley also be, in the medium term, a significant decrease in crime…
July 29th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Sapient,
Very short term as the people making money currently from illegal pot change to a different illegal substance. “P” maybe?
Lets make all substances legal.
That would solve the conumdrum.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Bryan Spondre said: “Kiwi Made is more about sustainability than about nationalism� - that doesn’t seem to be the message contained in the Buy Kiwi Made TVC
That’s marketing for you, Bryan! Not even Green Party marketing - remember it’s still a Government programme, although a Green initiative for which we have a Spokesperson but not a Minister, and the Greens don’t have any involvement in the operational decisions. I’m sure you will see cute kids in election advertising too, but it doesn’t mean they’re the target audience.
As for supporting cannabis use - No! We maintain that a drug-free lifestyle is the healthiest lifestyle, so don’t support the use of any drugs for recreational purposes. That said, we recognise that most people, even most Greens, will use drugs for recreational purposes on some occasions (we’re not wowsers), and that cannabis should be on the same legal footing as alcohol, which causes about the same amount of harm, and tobacco, which causes more.
And the eco-terrorist and terrorist stuff is just nonsense. If you’ve got any evidence of the Greens supporting terrorist activities, then front with it, rather than make unsubstantiated allegations. That used to be BB’s tactic (he’s got a bit better recently) - until now I didn’t think you would go there as most of your posts have been well-reasoned, despite my disagreement with some of the premises upon which they are based.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Toad
“And just how is locking up Bailey Kurariki for the rest of his life going to confer any rights to Michael Choy’s family, BB? Apart from making them, and the rest of us, contribute from our taxes to keeeping him in prison when he could be out earning a living.
Lets get one thing clear, this scum bag should not have any rights at all, he (you know, the one who fooled all the sickly liberals) should at the very least be locked up for the rest of his natural life.
When he commits his next horrendous crime Toad I will be demanding and expecting an apology from you, I only hope that it is not you or any of your family that are the victims of this low life scums actions.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Gerrit said: Lets make all substances legal. That would solve the conumdrum.
Actually, I think it would Gerrit. Then most people would use the safer ones to get their buzz, rather than the ones like P that are easiest to make, most addictive, most harmful, and provide the greatest profit for the gangs that make and distribute them.
Unfortunately, I haven’t managed to persuade the Green Party of this - at least yet. [I’m not just a Party hack - I do have some policy disagreements and this is one of them].
July 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Greens seem to tread a very fine line when it comes to issues of terrorism and security. They recognise they can’t afford to alienate ‘middle NZ’ but they have to be seen to being ‘hanging tough’ for their activist support base. For example in this excerpt from a NZ Herald article Keith Locke is communicating a message of support for the accused terrorists while appearing to be acting as a responsible politician.
I haven’t Googled it yet but I remember Nandor Tanczos doing the same when a PHD research project was destroyed by a group of anti-GE activists.
“Green MP Keith Locke said he remained sceptical of the truth of the threat claims, but if they were true they had to be treated seriously.
“I’m just as concerned as anyone else if there are serious things involved,” he said.
“But such serious charges don’t justify over-the-top measures and alienating those communities.
“It makes it even more important to do raids in a proper way, because they want the co-operation of those people. By going over the top, they’re less likely to get co-operation from the general community.” NZ Herald
July 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Kia ora Big Bro,
I am pleased our views on what a just system looks like as so very different.
This case was very unusual as some of the offenders here were children when they committed the crime - a deplorable one that necessitated the most serious consequences. Michael Choy’s death was a vicious tragedy and those responsible had to pay for it. And that happened. There is now no point relitigating the past.
The fact is that this young guy has no chance in changing his life if he continually suffers from police harrassment and humiliation - and remember we dont know if the breach of bail accuation was legit or not yet.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
toad: “But such serious charges don’t justify over-the-top measures and alienating those communities.”
For example this statement describes what I imagine are standard police procedures when arresting a large group of armed offenders as “over-the-top”. This is a clear dog whistle to those in our community who believe violent activity is legitimate if it is done in the interest of their “worthy ” cause.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Meyt: kia ora - Kurariki is set up to fail under anomalous regulations, and the system is doing that on a universal scale…
Bryan. you say its illegal get over it. the computer brain says flick the switch (cannabis := legal) so we get out of the infinite loop and stop going around in (criminality) circles. That change is as easy as the minister of health’s order in council with support of the house (if they could ever serve the public good instead of organised crime…)
Gerrit. doesnt it seem a little odd that an already forbidden activity gets listed alongside alcohol on Kurariki’s naughty list? surely breaking any law would go without saying as a parole condition? Cannabis got special mention because they know in the real world that the prohibition is a crock (actually promotes supply and demand), moreover that he is going to be exposed to ubiquitous pot in the real world with overwhelming peer pressure to partake. Is he loyal to his brothers, or to the system?
set up to fail.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Bryan - need I remind you that the Solicitor-General refused to approve the laying of charges of terrorism on the basis that they could not be legally sustained.
As for the charges that were eventually laid against tame Iti and other individuals under the Arms Act, those matters are still before the Courts, so we are yet to hear the actual evidence, rather than the spin that was used to justify the Police actions on that occasion.
When the evidence becomes public, it my prove you correct. But until then, I’d rather err on the side of caution. After all, I personally know some of those arrested in that Police exercise, and believe them to be committed political activists - not terrorists or even violent protestors. I’m open to being proven wrong, but as yet we don’t have the proof one way or another.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
how old was bjk when this awful murder took place ?
i think he was 12.
When I was 12 i tagged along one day with a group of older kids who went shoplifting - i was a child . i was too scared to say no or pull out of the whole stupid venture in case they thought i was a sissy, so i toughed it out.
I haven’t forgotten Michael Choi , he died a hideous death and his poor mother found him dead on her doorstep where he had crawled to seek her help.
But i also haven’t lost sight of the fact the bailey was a CHILD when this happened and kids sometimes don’t have the power or the skills to stand up to a group of older people , did he hatch the plan ? did he wield the baseball bat ? - there are some MISERABLLY mean right wingers here who would be happy to see a KID locked up for life - he has the chance to be a better member of society but not if types like you keep picking over his life and hounding him - would you prefer he failed and went back to prison ?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
toad: “Solicitor-General refused to approve the laying of charges of terrorism on the basis that they could not be legally sustained.”
The Solicitor General also remarked that the police files contained information that pointed to some very disturbing things that were happening. The files leaked to/by the Dominion Post indicated that some very disturbing things were happening including plans to assasinate MP’s. The Solicitor General was unable to approve the laying of charges because of the poor drafting of the legislation.
Even when the arms charges come to trial a lot of the evidence related to the terrorist accusations will be in-admissable so I guess we will never know.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Bryan Spondre Says:
July 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
> weedeater: while I have had other vices I have never seen the point in inhaling the smoke from any kind of burning plant.
nor did I until I found out that it is an effective way of treating pain from urinary infections - something that can’t be done with any prescription opioid that doesn’t cause my digestive system to shut down.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Kahikatea, Weedeater: I think there’s a huge difference between making cannabis a controlled, prescribable drug for medicinal purposes, and wholesale legalisation for recreational use.
Haz: “he has the chance to be a better member of society but not if types like you keep picking over his life and hounding him - would you prefer he failed and went back to prison?”
He HAD the chance to be a better member of society when he was paroled, but CHOSE to break the conditions of his parole by smoking weed, so yeah, back to prison it is.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Bryan Spondre said: The files leaked to/by the Dominion Post indicated that some very disturbing things were happening including plans to assasinate MP’s.
If that were the case, then why has no-one been charged by the Police with conspiracy to murder, which is a simple Crimes Act offence that does not require the Solicitor-General’s (as proxy for the Attorney-General’s)leave?
There are only two conclusions I can draw from that Bryan - either there was insufficient evidence to substantiate a prima facie case for conspiracy to murder, or that the “plans to assassinate MP’s (sic)” were nothing more than spin.
Anyway, as a “law and order” man, I would expect you to also be asking questions re why there has been no investigation, or no outcome from any investigation, re the “leak” to the DomPost, and no consequent prosecution of the person(s) responsible for contempt of court as a result of an action that severely compromises the trial of those accused of the offences under the Arms Act that have been laid.
After all, doesn’t “zero tolerance” mean zero tolerance for any criminal offence, even if committed by a Police Officer or civilian staff member of the Police?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
weedeater,
I understand yuor point and am sympathetic to it. Hopefully you see my point as well.
I dont want him to fail but the picture you are painting is off an easily led young man. His bro’s came around and offered him pot. He cant let his bro’s down so he breaks his parole.
The parolee should have take personal responsibilty for his actions and got his minders (real brothers as opposed to bro’s, would have respected his wishes - but that is another story) to keep pot out of his place of residency.
Haz,
We dont want to kick this guy while he is rehabilitating. And no I dont want him locked up for life. But he has to show some responsibility for his actions. While pot smoking is not of serious consequence (I agree with weedeater here), he does need to show personal responsibilty to abide by his parole conditions.
He sadly failed this first test. His bro’s are more important then his freedom.
toad,
Any info on this guy Kim Workman?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
G’day Meyt
Thanks for the reply and the confirmation that you are indeed more worried about the rights of criminals than you are of the victims.
While it is nice to be able to talk to a MP in this fashion you could have commented without the arrogant superior attitude, but then I suppose thats what happens when you so divorced from reality.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Wow the speculations and assumptions in this thread are astounding!
Ignoring the majority of it…
I wonder if there is any precedent for the Police using this amount of resources to pick someone up for an alleged minor breach of bail? Let’s just say it was only 20 police and one helicopter, taking into account the time taken to plan such an exercise we’re looking at least $10k of taxpayers dollars. That seems extraordinary to me. Who is to be held accountable for this if it turns out to be a bunch of bollocks?
I bet all the victims of domestic violence cases would love it if they could get that many officers out for a reported breach of a restraining order.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
The guy clearly can’t follow a few simple rules. His only task to enjoy the priviledge of early parole is to follow them, thus paying his debt to society.
If he breaks them, then he hasn’t paid that debt.
No sympathy.
My sympathy lies with the victims mother.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
I feel like repeating myself:
“Let’s face it, society itself is as guilty or not, as the person committing the crime. No man is an island and every action has multiple external reference points, many of them rooted in the way we structure our communities.
It’s funny how we find it appalling that countries like Iran is run by faith based ayatollahs when the courts underpinning our society are based on what can only be called a theistic belief; that people have free will. A belief that has caused and will cause much more harm than any priest running a country can ever hope to achieve.
Instead of taking a good look at ourselves and try to find ways of living that do not cause unwanted behaviour we rather opt for the easy way out and point the finger at the individual when it occurs.”
Locking someone up can only be justified if it is the only mean of keeping that person from harming themselves or others. Punishment should never be the cause for locking someone up, only behavioural change and modification through rehabilitation can justify that.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Gerrit asked: toad, Any info on this guy Kim Workman?
Yep, here.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
If you can’t play nicely with other kids, you get sent to the “naughty step”. If you can’t play nicely with the rest of society, you go to society’s “naughty step”.
How long you stay there depends on how naughty you were. If you convince those that put you there that you’re sorry, that you’ve learned your lesson / found God / found your culture, you may be allowed to leave the “naughty step” early.
If you’ve been telling fibs and you haven’t moved on from the behavioral patterns that landed you there in the first place, you’ll find yourself back on the “naughty step” in no time.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:53 am
toad,
So how being a parole support person makes Kim Workman knowledgeable about Police intellegence regarding the Parolee’s situation at the time of his re-arrest?
Not.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:56 am
>>Locking someone up can only be justified if it is the only mean of keeping that person from harming themselves or others.
How do you know he won’t? That is the problem - he’s *killed* once, and now demonstrated he can’t follow a few simple rules (i.e. weigh actions and consequences).
July 30th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
“How do you know he won’t? That is the problem - he’s *killed* once, and now demonstrated he can’t follow a few simple rules (i.e. weigh actions and consequences).”
How do you know that anyone won’t kill? You don’t. But you (psychologists, social workers, counselors etc.) can assess to a reasonable degree whether someone is likely or not to kill or kill again. Rehabilitation is about helping the person to be able to weigh actions and consequences in a desirable way as well as avoiding situations and circumstances where he or she will be forced to actually make that choice. In that sense rehabilitation should not be seen just as an exercise for the individual, but on a grander scale involving the whole of society and the trigger points existing there. I.e how do we structure and organise society as to avoid unwanted individual behaviour to occur in the first place. Thus we all need to “rehabilitate” as we are as guilty or not as the person actually doing the deed. Do we focus on rehabilitation today? Well a little, but the main focus is placed on punishment and containment which in most cases just makes things worse (A lot of people with unwanted behaviour mainly mixing with other people with unwanted behaviour is just plain stupid). Do we as a society try to rehabilitate and learn from our failings. Nope, and the only party that seems to have focus on that is the greens.
In some cases I agree that people should not be let loose in society again or be locked up before they cause harm to start with. We already have a system dealing with these individuals called mental hospitals.