by frog
Trevor Loudon, New Zealand’s self proclaimed exposer of communist revolutionaries, has finally found a forum even less credible than his own blog in which to reveal the Green Party’s close links to Maori, Maoist, anarchist terrorism. Ian Wishart has given him 13 pages of investigate Magazine to warn the good people of New Zealand that they are surrounded, surrounded, I say by, sinister goings on:
Far from being a gathering of disaffected Kiwi malcontents, my research shows that the “Uruwera 17″ were connected to a worldwide anti-capitalist movement linked to some of he most militant and violent activists on the planet.
The abridged version of Loudon’s accusation goes something like this:
- Some Green Party members are also members of the Save Happy Valley Coalition. (Which wants to stop mining and save the West Coast environment).
- Save Happy Valley’s Wellington headquarters is in the same building as a building where police raids relating to the Urewera 17 were carried out.
- The Urewera 17 currently face firearms changes – terrorism charges were not laid after a direction from the solicitor general telling the police not to proceed. (Not the Attorney General as Loudon says at one point in his article).
So Green Party members are Marxist (or is that Maoist?) terrorists because some Green Party members belong to an organisation that was in the same building as some activists who were linked to a group who were not charged with terrorism. Convinced? Loudon even names some of these dangerous Green party members with links to terrorists, including Mojo Mathers, Natalie Cutler Welsh and Jeanette Fitzsimons. Imagine those three in combat gear storming down from Tinakori hill towards the Beehive and you get a good picture of where Loudon is at.
Meanwhile, watch this: Loudon is an Act Party activist. Act’s major donor in 2005 was Garry Mallet. Mallet operates a Les Mills gym in Hamilton. Les Mills was Mayor of Auckland during 1998 when the Britomart Scheme was first proposed and initiated. Britomart is a publicly funded public transport hub in Auckland. Therefore Loudon is in favour of publicly funded public transport. Therefore Loudon is a Green. And a terrorist. See how fun this game is?
(in case you have been lucky enough not to stumble across the phenomenon that is former Act Party Vice President Trevor Loudon here’s a quick intro: His website, the Hive asking if anyone in Loudon’s world is not part of a communist front, and this comment from Mr G on Poneke’s Loudon blogpost:
Here’s Trevor Loudon talking about the Business Roundtable in his mag New Zeal in Feb/March 1989 (page 5) replying to a letter defending the BRT by Roger Kerr.
“The BRT while pushing some good ideas, are in New Zeal’s eye a pretty poor bunch. Several BR members have histories of Soviet contacts or pro socialist activities.” He goes on to provide examples like the fact that Ron Trotter once allowed socialists to cut firewood on his property to raise funds for themselves!
He finished by describing the fourth labour government (roger douglas and co) as “the most marxist government in New Zealand history!”
Published in Media | Society & Culture by frog on Mon, July 21st, 2008
Tags: Ian Wishart, Jeanette Fitzsimons, Mojo Mathers, Natalie Cutler Welsh, terrorism, Trevor Loudon, Urewera 17
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Loading...
“Save Happy Valley’s Wellington headquarters is in the same building as a building where several of the Urewera 17 that were arrested were based.”
Save Happy Valley Wellington doesn’t really have an HQ – there’s a few file boxes and a bundle of leaflets in a couple of places. I guess he’s talking about 128 Abel Smith Street, which was raided by police, but nobody there was arrested.
Worringly, Trev Loudon’s blog is used as a source by private investigators Thompson and Clark. Trev’s ramblings are republished as a newsletter on ‘National Extremism’ and sold to government departments.
See: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sundaystartimes/4584266a6442.html
What’s worrying is that the information is available on the blog, so my hard-earned tax dollars are used by bumbling government bureaucrats to buy information available for free. One would expect a free-market paragon like Trev to be making a fuss about this, buit he’s very quiet on the issue. He also refuses to pay me a reasonable sum for corrections to the things he writes about me, and keeps asking for me to provide the information for free, which makes me wonder if he isn’t some kind of free-thinking lefty anarchist, always wanting something for nothing.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Thanks Sam, Yes, you’re right that to call Save Happy Valley’s Wellington location a HQ is giving it a grandiosity that it probably does not warrant. And I mistakenly said that there were arrests at 128 Abel Smith, when there were only raids. I’ll correct that now. If I were not so convinced that Trevor is actually a left winger satirist I’d believe he was guilty of lying and defamation.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
With regard the Urewera 17 what the Green Party is guilty of is playing it down (nothing to see here), when you knew that people such as this existed and how they thought (although not necessarily what they were doing). Compare that to your reaction towards the NZ Govt owned Waihopai base. What’s more you have a sympathetic ideology with your support for the original Maori language version of the Treaty of Waitangi which (among other things) guarantees Maori Sovereignty (tino rangitiratanga)
Essentially you have picked up one of history’s messes and have a tiger by the tail.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
“What’s more you have a sympathetic ideology with your support for the original Maori language version of the Treaty of Waitangi which (among other things) guarantees Maori Sovereignty (tino rangitiratanga)”
By “sympathetic ideology” do you mean support for the rule of law? Or do you think inconvenient treaties should be abandoned? I’m kind of keen on dumping the FTA with China.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Your talking about a treaty made in 1840 when people were press ganged intcouo the navy. While the treaty promises tino rangitiratanga, colonisation would probably have happened regardless (one way or another) and British settlers would never have lived under Maori rule once they became the dominant group. It was fine for the Colonial Office to tell the missionaries and military to make a treaty but the treaty was (necessarily) fudged because at that time there were 2000 Europeans and 60 to 70,000 Maori. The British negotiators got the best they could.
Those are the circumstances. Now ofrse we have people who are genetically more European that Moari
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
sorry hadn’t finished shift was stuck down and I accidentally hit post.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Surely the Greens can see that the Treaty is a millstone around the neck of this country, a courageous govt would put an end to all this treaty rubbish and concentrate on making all people of this land equal.
Until that happens we will continue to have racist parliamentarians in the form of John Harawira and racist seats in our Parliament, we will also keep feeding the ravenous beast that is the grievance industry and NOTHING will change.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Whether non Maori have a right to be here or not is rather academic and is more academic as time passes. We are alive because of the landmass known as New Zealand and we aren’t going anywhere. Fast forwarding to the past where 4.2 million of us live in a series of tribal cantons as second class citizens (as in Fiji) is not a future many people will want………….
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
He!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
It would help to know what Te Tiriti says for a start. There is no question that Pakeha have a right to be here – the treaty guarantees this. That Pakeha would never live under Maori rule is not at issue, as the treaty doesn’t require this. The supposed “ravenous beast that is the grievance industry” was caused by the real ravenous beast that was colonisation and typically delivers back to Maori about 1% of the current value of what was taken, so get some friggin’ perspective.
Our history of colonisation is the real millstone around our necks. That and the fact that some think they can make it go away by decree. I don’t deny that honouring the treaty entails some gnarly issues that would require a lot of discussion and attempts to get right. Rather, that is the point and nothing will get solved to anyone’s satisfaction unless both sides engage. A starting point of “we won, eat that” is sure to fail and doesn’t respect anyone, Pakeha included. Instead, try engaging in good faith without automatically assuming the end point will be comparable to other places where the goals have been subjugation rather than reconciliation.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
What a wonderful mental picture …
Mojo, Natalie and Jeanette … in Battle Fatigues (and appropriate Boots) … brandishing the latest in Killing Technology … STORMING towards the Beehive … with Camoflage Makeup on their DETERMINED looking faces …
I assume the battle fatigues would be of that new colouring they showed on the TVNZ News a couple of months ago? (We need to be up to date with these things!)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“It would help to know what Te Tiriti says for a start. There is no question that Pakeha have a right to be here – the treaty guarantees this.”
According to the Green Party non Maori’s don’t have any absolute right to be in NZ. It is conditional on honoring the treaty (tangata ti tiriti).
“That Pakeha would never live under Maori rule is not at issue, as the treaty doesn’t require this.”
Except that it isn’t clear which geographical areas kawangatanga and tino rangitiratanga apply to. In addition many sources play down kawangatanga as a weak made up word.
“The supposed “ravenous beast that is the grievance industryâ€? was caused by the real ravenous beast that was colonisation and typically delivers back to Maori about 1% of the current value of what was taken, so get some friggin’ perspective.”
Your statement shows the futility of trying to settle Maori grievances while some put the amount at several trillion.
“Our history of colonisation is the real millstone around our necks. That and the fact that some think they can make it go away by decree.”
I’m over it.
“I don’t deny that honouring the treaty entails some gnarly issues that would require a lot of discussion and attempts to get right. Rather, that is the point and nothing will get solved to anyone’s satisfaction unless both sides engage.”
An academic pointed out last year that interest in the treaty was at an all time low. The people who are very interested are the left (especially the Green Party) and the lawyers etc on the gravy train and assorted malcontents.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“Titter titter” Eredwen, except that those were real weapons and the eave dropped words in the police affidavit had a contextual setting which involved arranged meetings for training sessions.
My brother in law was skeptical …until he read the police affidavit.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“According to the Green Party non Maori’s don’t have any absolute right to be in NZ. It is conditional on honoring the treaty (tangata ti tiriti).”
Well, its not illogical to say a contract’s a contract and one side should fulfill its contractual obligations if it expects to realise its contractual gains (and I’ve never understood why right wingers who talk of the sanctity of property rights and contracts don’t speak up about this – oh yeah – we won, eat that). However, this is not GP policy.
“Except that it isn’t clear which geographical areas kawangatanga and tino rangitiratanga apply to. In addition many sources play down kawangatanga as a weak made up word.”
Yes, conquest is messy, and addressing the resulting problems isn’t easy, demanding much compromise on each side. It also isn’t an excuse for not doing what’s right.
“Your statement shows the futility of trying to settle Maori grievances while some put the amount at several trillion.”
Maori are not demanding trillions! That they are in the vast majority of cases settling for a few percent and an apology should show just how possible it is to address these issues and how serious they are at getting past the grievances in a meaningful way.
“An academic pointed out last year that interest in the treaty was at an all time low.”
So if Pakeha don’t care, why can’t Maori just f**k off. We won, eat that.
“The people who are very interested are the left (especially the Green Party) and the lawyers etc on the gravy train and assorted malcontents.”
You are seriously not “over it’ if you feel justified in describing Maoridom as malcontents. Shame on you.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
JH
Not “titter titter” …
I was responding to frog’s post:
“Loudon even names some of these dangerous Green party members with links to terrorists, including Mojo Mathers, Natalie Cutler Welsh and Jeanette Fitzsimons. Imagine those three in combat gear storming down from Tinakori hill towards the Beehive and you get a good picture of where Loudon is at.”
Sometimes when things are “deadly serious”, introducing a bit of humour can restore “balance” and bring about a change in perspective.
( If you knew Mojo, Natalie or Jeanette, all of whom are all wise, gentle, considerate and peaceful people, you would share the joke ! )
eredwen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
The BRT are commies…probably some commies in the U17…THE BRT WERE GOING TO TAKE OUT JOHN KEY!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
An academic pointed out last year that interest in the treaty was at an all time low.�
So if Pakeha don’t care, why can’t Maori just f**k off. We won, eat that.
…………
The article didn’t just refer to Non Maori but “the public”
“Interest in Treaty at dangerous low, says academic
Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 9:39 am
Press Release: Auckland University of Technology
Interest in Treaty at dangerous low, says AUT academic
Public interest in the Treaty of Waitangi has plummeted in the last two years, says AUT University academic and leading Treaty expert Professor Paul Moon.
“Despite the millions of tax-payer dollars being poured into Treaty education, there has been an alarming drop in public concern with anything to do with the Treaty,� he says.
By analysing references to the Treaty in the media and gauging the amount of public discussion on it, Professor Moon estimates that the past two years represent a new low in awareness of Treaty-related matters.
He puts this down to several reasons, including a failure by many to see any relevance in the Treaty, the lack of progress in settling the hundreds of outstanding claims, and what he terms the “spectacular disinterest� in the Government’s recent Treaty road show.
“We are possibly seeing the beginning of the end of the Treaty in the country’s national life,� warns Professor Moon. “If New Zealanders do not see a purpose in the Treaty, then in just one generation it could disappear altogether from the national consciousness, and will be remembered afterwards solely as an historical agreement.�
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/print.html?path=ED0701/S00037.htm
……………………………………
“The people who are very interested are the left (especially the Green Party) and the lawyers etc on the gravy train and assorted malcontents.�
You are seriously not “over it’ if you feel justified in describing Maoridom as malcontents. Shame on you.
…………
Yes of course there are legitimate tribal grievances. But there is a fork in the road: a settlement process and “consign to the past (“let sleeping dogs lie”) or revive and restore like a vintage car and make permanent, a modern version of an old order. The Greens have chosen the latter.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
So the “evils” of colonisation are the reason Maori top almost every negative statistic that one can think of and the ONLY thing that will fix this is money.
Do the left realise that they are being conned?, do the left realise that this is a never ending gravy train that will have disastrous results for all the people of New Zealand?.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“There is no question that Pakeha have a right to be here – the treaty guarantees this”
Really – which words in the Treaty say this?
“Our history of colonisation is the real millstone around our necks. That and the fact that some think they can make it go away by decree.�
“I’m over it.”
That’s nice, guess I’ll go out shoplifting later on – if I’m caught I can give a few of the things I take back and say “I’m over it, why aren’t you? Stop dwelling on the past, etc. etc.”
“So the “evilsâ€? of colonisation are the reason Maori top almost every negative statistic that one can think of and the ONLY thing that will fix this is money.”
I think you are the only person who ever asserts this, BB.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
” I think you are the only person who ever asserts this, BB.”
So you dont get out much then?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
For a start, WTF is a University of TECHNOLOGY doing with an employee portrayed as an academic and leading Treaty expert? When we have so many Universities for so few people, the least we can do is demand that they keep to some mandate of subject coverage and avoid expensive and unnecessary overlap.
Having said that, my main point is that delivering to the left one of the things they most desire is the way to permanently resolve all Treaty issues.
That’s right! We all vote to be a republic with a written constitution (just keep Winston off the group that draft the constitution, infact start with the original US Constitution and see how amendments flow through based on majority plebiscite approval) and there is no longer a Treaty issuie in Aotearoa, as the treaty is with The Crown, and there wouldn’t be one any more!
We could all live as Aotearoans, respecting each other’s culture and ethnicity under constitutional equality. What more could any of us (who are not part of what my Maori cab driver this morning called the Treaty Gravy train mob) want?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
the treaty is a living document, not a tomb of the past. it has on going relevence.
its good to know that white supremecy and imperialist views are alive and kicking in NZ these days:
‘… why can’t Maori just f**k off. We won, eat that.’ –
JH
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
treesoftomorrow,
Are you able to paint me a picture of how you see New Zealand in 2020 wityh the treaty fully implemented?
Every time I ask anyone who says the treaty is the overarching document for New Zealand society to paint his picture, they cant answer.
So please, paint that picture of New Zealand society with the treaty fully honoured for me.
Because when you do you may just get people to agree with you as I suspect that nobody has explained to them either how the treaty will work in New Zealand society in 2020.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
every individual has the freedom to any part of the earth, however no individual has the right to anything unless they can muster enough force to coerce others into not claiming it and in doing so protect their possesion of the object. That is to say; Maori do not have any more right to New Zealand land and resources than Australians, Americans or Chinese. Those with the right to the land are the citizens of the nation of new zealand who together exert coercive force over the lands of new zealand through the institution of state. ‘Race’ or ethnicity does not grant you rights; membership to a contract group does.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Trev’s article is quite lucid, I recommend it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“Those with the right to the land are the citizens of the nation of new zealand who together exert coercive force over the lands of new zealand through the institution of state.”
Yikes! So anybody who can muster a successful coup or armed rebellion can claim a ‘right’ to the spoils!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
sam,
indeed, that is how the world works. if the maori can muster an army and protect the land above auckland to such a degree that the state considers it not worth protecting or aquiring then that group has complete rights to the land. but then again, one does not need an army of their own when they can use the force of international agreements to utilise the coercive forces of other bodies such as the U.N..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“Are you able to paint me a picture of how you see New Zealand in 2020 with the treaty fully implemented?”
Easy:
The treaty is between Tangata Whenua and the Crown
Tangata Whenua= all born New Zealanders
Crown=Prince Charles… woops his ears are too big, scrub the last part!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
You forgot the bit in the article where the Green member tells everyone (on the Green Party members only forum) to keep their traps shut as this is fr”’gin serious and not to talk to the “filth”… (police).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
I like the bit in trev’s article about the “national Question”…. : working on indigenous issues to stir up dissent. It projects a big question mark on the far left (yes I believe we have them)’s rationale behind Te tiriti everything.
Peolpe will also be thinking “WTF’s an An R kist”?
“A holden Ute……….” “Naaaaaa!”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient
You might want to read a bit about the LTTE (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) to find out about ‘taking and holding the country north of Auckland. Especially the help, or lack of it, they’ve had from bodies like the UN.
It might open your eyes to realities we don’t often have to be confronted with here in Aotearoa.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
not even in the Ureweras
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“if the maori can muster an army and protect the land above auckland to such a degree that the state considers it not worth protecting or aquiring then that group has complete rights to the land.”
Sharemarket tip – invest in sandbags. I’m heading out to dig my bunker now and avoid the rush.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
LOL, strings, i was mearly making a point. I do not expect any help from the U.N. should there be a violent upraising, my point with the U.N. mention was that international treties and agreements also come into play, for example we all know the only reason america does not invade every other country is because unless it can justify it to the U.N. to some degree it will meet with resistance from the other countries eventually.
another note; if the maori are given a peice of land, including soveriegnty over that land, by the government and are protected in that by the government they gain that right also since they are through agreements protecting the land until the government changes its mind. my point is that there is no right to land that you can not defend from enchrochment.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient
PMSL
I knew your tongue was in your cheek m8, but there’s a lot here who don’t understand what that means!
One interesting thing about the UN right now, is that it hasn’t paid rent on the NYC building for years, as the US hasn’t paid its dues for the same period! Wonderful how these things happen isn’t it! Anyway, just imagine the scenario . . . . . . . .
The USA invades the UK as it finds it needs a stronghold in Europe that is independent of the Euro. England decides that before it lays back and enjoys it (as a pope once said to nuns in Africa) it should put up a token resistance, so appeals to the UN for help. The UN schedules a meeting, to arrange a meeting, to work out how a meeting of the security council can be held without two of the permanent members being allowed in. This meeting establishes a working party, reporting to a sub-committee, that agrees to liaise with the European Union’s Committee on invasions and deterrents thereto prior to delivering its report back to the committee so that the suspended meeting can be rescheduled for continuation. After hearing of this development, half the UK population take flight to Florida and seek asylum while the other half loots what is left behind in the hope that they will be declared mentally unfit to be tried on the basis that the original owners didn’t want the junk so why would anyone else? The USA completes its sequestering of the UK, and negotiates an agreement with the monarchy whereby the daughter of the current president will marry Prince William, and these two will form the basis of a dynasty of heads of state (HOS) for the newly expanded Union, leaving the president to get on with the serious job of being Commander in Chief. The societal wannabees of Boston, New York, San Francisco, etc., all move to the UK to clearly show their high social positioning. Because the new HOS is not “royal” and does not hold a “crown”, all treaties and agreements with prior dominions are rescinded, and those prior dominions are offered statehood (so long as they have an aggregate population equal to or greater than Alaska, ) or independence as their legislation’s decide.
MOst MAori Activists and legal council (MOMALs) relocate to London where they proceed to attempt to negotiate compensation for the loss of earnings and benefits from Treaty Negotiations they had enjoyed prior to the US invasion of the UK. After 45 years of lobbying and requesting audience, they finally get the message that the legislature of the US is in Dulles, not Durham, County, and fly to Washington Dulles airport, where they are refused entry on account of being aliens without the appropriate visas. When they appeal to NZ (now renamed New Aotearoa to remove the Dutch association) for diplomatic assistance, the response is “who? you want what? where were you travelling from? Guantanamo beckons.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient really is very young and naive isn’t he?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
very young; comparativly.
naive; debatable.
care to state why I am so naive, Janine? I do so love to enhance myself!
Strings, well thought out story, but i kinda miss the point? how plausable it is depends mostly on the state of the media at the time i suppose.
PMSL?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Sapient
Pi**ing my self laughing
The point, is that a week in politics is a long time and the vagaries of the world defy prediction. As for well though out – sorry, it was just mental rambling from the brain to the fingers with not much in between.
go well.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
“the hui will discuss how we/us you and all of us are going to take back aotearoa from the baldyheads to expel the britishers, the kaupapa of the hui is to set a plan of action in place to assist in bringing this about, independence and self determination we will all decide as to what and how we move on this ideally we want to perform an action on waitangi day that will shock the world.”
“go to the one in wgtn at the oblong left bank cuba street that’s where you can find out about the fake us, canada, america and english pernicious resource stripping war mongering industrialists nations and how to overthrow them. ”
“There are the petty crime games, steal anything and everything it is muru. Burn it or destroy whatever you steal or distribute it if this is for example 1&2. It there is any profit from it give ten to 20% of it to any iwi political organisation,” like the whanau.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)