I’m safe now that I’ve got me a vigilante criminal to protect me
Now I’ve got to suspect that Auckland businessman, Peter Low’s “vigilante group of up to 300 members training in martial arts to protect their community against street thugs” may be somewhat more prosaic, and less nunchuck wielding, than the Sunday Star Times is hoping for. Nevertheless, Mr Low certainly got people excited with his vigilante solution to crime.
“We are training people in hand-to-hand combat and how to handle situations.
“I want this group to be legalised. If they don’t allow it, that’s when we might have to employ Triads to protect our community,” he said.
Yeap, that’s the way - got a gang problem in your neighbourhood - why not hire a crime syndicate to take care of it?  After all I hear it’s working well in Sicily. And you have to admit New Zealand would be a whole lot stauncher and cooler with a few more high profile gangs like Traids, the Illumnati and Yakusi gracing our streets. That would show those small South Auckland punk gangs a thing or two about how to blow up a P lab in real style.
Really, it is after all, only an extension of what the Sensible Sentencing Trust seems to be calling for - heavily armed police officers and courts working together, behaving in the nature of powerful gangs, distributing retribution a la Judge Dredd, and avoiding that time consuming and pink liberal ‘due process’ concept.
Afterthought - There are two good but totally unrelated posts from contradiction, one on the true cost of the trucking industry and one on the ‘anti smacking‘ bill. Personally, I think the good thing that came out of the truck protest is the focus it has put on the alternative forms of freight transport like coastal shipping, and the potential alternatives like rail.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
If anyone’s got their dial stuck on 4 and a half, it’s Labour’s Mean Machine.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Peter Low is not media trained and is angry and full of testosterone.
Basically communities can keep their citizens safe if we let them. The Green Party solution is more money to South Aucklands beneficiaries.
I don’t think there’ll be many votes for the Greens from the Asian community (except the odd Maoist)….
July 6th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
You forgot to mention the numbers on the march 10,000 to 15,000 people who don’t feel safe.
Meanwhile back in la la land :
Press Release: Green Party
2 July 2008
Police enthusiasm for pepper-spray needs to be reviewed
Green Party Police Spokesperson Keith Locke wants the Police Commissioner to review the way his officers are using pepper spray.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Locals looking after locals is not without many precedents; Go back a few decades to the east end of London, and there was no crime not sanctioned by Crays. Many East Enders remember those days as good days, where, for the average citizen, the streets were safe…
July 6th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
10,000 to 15,000 people don’t feel safe and they are marching.
Once again Frog blows it and i hope the rest of the green party doesn’t feel the same. Your post Frog once again displays the utter contempt you hold for the people of NZ. Is it because they are asian or not beneficiary’s. Is that why you show these people no respect.
The people entrust their security to the government, we give up our right to defend ourselves only so long as the government can live up to its end of the bargin. It looks pretty clear to the people of south Auckland that the government isn’t living up to its end of the bargin. As this is the case these people have every right to defend themselves.
All we seem to hear from the far left retards on this blog is that we just need to give more money to the poor and these problems will disapear overnight. Unless that money is going to be used to buy a delorean and some plutonium things wont change. We have a problem in south auckland now and talking about what caused it will not fix it. We needed to intervene with these people when they were children and we didn’t so there isn’t much we can do for these people now stop treating the criminal as the victim Frog and start looking out for the citizens of NZ who just want to get on with their lives, work and live in safety.
Those are the people you want to vote for us in the election, if we treat them with the kind of arrogance you have been displaying in your posts lately Frog then the election is already lost for us. Just how out of touch with New Zealand are you Frog, god i live in New York and I think i’m more in touch.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
The safest communities seem to be places where people know each other, interact, and have a sense of trust. Crime results from a breakdown in social bonds.
Unfortunately, most of the solutions proposed seem to put us headed in the wrong direction.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Self determination….
July 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Benefit culture.
Bad parenting.
Cultural apologists.
Violence.
PC government.
Lightweight police action. .
Community finally gets sick of it, takes matters into their own hands.
Entirely predictable.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Calm down jh and turnip. Just because I didn’t write about the 10,000 -15,000 marchers doesn’t mean I was ignoring them. I already know as does just about everybody else, that there is a widespread concern/fear about crime and violence in our communities. All I did though was comment on the proposed solution outlined in the SST. If you think vigilantism is the solution to a perceived crime wave that’s fine. Personally though I think your argument might hold more water if you looked at root causes instead - such as Blue Peter is doing (not that I agree with his diagnosis).
July 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
The greens answer to this violence is to bring more state interference into the lives of NZ familys.
Your’ve got kevin Haque saying that educating people is not enough r.e healthy eating, so does that mean the greens are going to force diet laws on us?. What’s the next thing Sue Bradfords got planned for family’s?survelance camera’s to stop us “beating” our kids and to monitor feeding habits?
You guys need to return to your roots and care for the environment instead of pursuing this progressive socialist garbage. I would probably even vote green if it wasn’t for all this social engineering crap.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
“Personally, I think the good thing that came out of the truck protest is the focus it has put on the alternative forms of freight transport like coastal shipping, and the potential alternatives like rail.�
Yes, that’s right. I’m going to have my weekly recycling bin collected by a ship or a train.
do you know the actual % of all truck movements in NZ that could seriously divert to rail or shipping?
RUC.! This govt is ripping the taxpayers off blind at the moment. Another $2.6bil higher than forcast surplus of which $800mil is unexpected tax.. Did you realise for every 1 cent increase at the pumps the Govt get another $5.5mil in GST?
Why increase RUC when a decrease in excise would balance the issue and relieve some pressure on low income families.
Why not start investing some serious surpluses into policing so we don’t have 15,000 people marching in protest (and friends like your Pam Corkery cant make a living out of docos glorifying street gangs)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
viglinatism has a very long history.
A long history of lynch mobs, bigotry, and brutal violence against people who don’t look right or walk down streets where “your kind ain’t welcome”. A history of corruption, mob control and a solution that is worse than the problem. Who watches the watchers and guards the guardians - and who’ll protect you from your protectors?
July 6th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Patrick, take your pick:
So why do you want me to subsidize the trucking industry through my taxes? Sure I depend on them and use what they do - but here in NZ we have a system called “capitalism” whereby I pay for it when I do so.
According to LTSA’s figures, heavy trucks do a third of the wear and tear on road. But their user charges pay for only a fraction of that and no, the excise on diesel doesn’t cover the rest.
The govt were dorks in their timing and should have given more notice of the change: you can really mess up a small contractor’s life when you add charges on short notice. Fair call on that one: the casual arrogance of the current Labour govt strikes again. But that doesn’t mean that the raise is wrong, just that it was implemented really bady.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
icehawk, According to the MoT’s STCC study the fraction is 1/1. Nice try but no kewpie doll.
Excise on diesel? When did that happen? There is GST but the govt keeps that for running the government.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
frankly i’m more scared of 10,000 people who march to stop crime ( what next ? - lets march against bad weather ) and whose spokesperson threatens us with Triads .
Of course we want to stop crime..who bloody doesn’t ? But demanding heavier sentences or some kind of Singaporean response won’t stop it , we need to address root causes - we’ve left behind whole sectors of our community while we slaver over plasma tvs and d-list tv actors . the kiwi measure of status now seems to be the size of ones car or house rather than any kind of old fashioned virtue like community mindedness.
If longer sentences worked Texas would be crime free
July 7th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Icehawk “So why do you want me to subsidize the trucking industry through my taxes?�
You’re not. You’re simply being over charged in the excise your paying on petrol and this govt have tried to justify it by increasing the RUC
Current receipts
$850mil in RUC (Diesel) –pre 7% increase
$1.4 bil in excise (Petrol)
over a third by your apportionment
Total annual road budget $2.2 bil. The govt could have easily made up any shortfall in the National Roading Budget from additional GST on fuel. Lets face it GST on high priced fuel is a unexpected income for the govt. They should spend it where it should be spent and not increase taxes on a struggling industry
July 7th, 2008 at 8:06 am
“5270? people on benefits due to drug addiction and alcoholism”.
Geoffrey Palmer decreed prison shouldn’t be for punishment.
In Asian countires such as Japan prisoners march. In the tough prisons there is no prisoner on prisoner violence sentences are tougher and shorter. Policemen march out of the station truncheons swinging. There’s no Murray Alice or Keith Locke.
Attack the problem from all angles including the selective stacking(?) of the public service.
Got to go (in a hurry).
PS as peakoil becomes reality and more partys accept climate change (contrarians are just a minority) there will be (is now) a draining effect such that Green Party Marxist dominated policies are laid bare.
Song: [Score by Phil U]
there are no Marxists in the Gre-e-ens…………..!
They are all en-vi-ron-ment-al-ists…….
there are no Marxists in the Gre-e-ens…………..!
They are all en-vi-ron-ment-al-ists…….
(Voice:) I hearrr ya brother!……… (really getting into it….)
July 7th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
“In Asian countires such as Japan prisoners march. In the tough prisons there is no prisoner on prisoner violence sentences are tougher and shorter.”
In Japan, ethics are taught in schools, and children are taught to work together as a team. they also have not had corporal punishment in schools since just after WW2. In general they have a stronger sense of community and therefore are less likely to rip each other off.
I can remember getting on to a crowded train at Ueno station and being lucky enough to secure a seat. As the train was not due to leave for another 15 minutes I wanted to have a look at the station shops, but was afraid of losing my seat. My Japanese companion took off her jacket, put it on her seat, and told me to do the same, so we could secure our seat. As a newcomer to Japan my immediate thought as a Westerner was that if I did that I would not only lose the seat, I would lose the jacket. However, I was persuaded by my companion that it would be perfectly safe, and sure enough my jacket was not touched.
It was not the fear of reprisals that kept thousands of Japanese strangers from touching my jacket; the chance of being caught on a crowded train would have been zero. I can only conclude that they have a stronger sense of ethics and respect for others in their community. So jh’s analysis of Asian crime prevention policy is somewhat simplistic.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
“Lets face it GST on high priced fuel is a unexpected income for the govt. ”
No, it isn’t. People keeping saying that and it’s absolutely false.
Because money that people spend on fuel is money that they don’t spent on something else. The govts GST receipts are 12.5% of net consumption, and net consumption is *not* up.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
“icehawk, According to the MoT’s STCC study the fraction is 1/1. Nice try but no kewpie doll.”
kevyn,
According to the data from the STCC on the MoT website truck users pay only 56% of the costs of their road usage:
http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/stcc-q-and-a.pdf
Do I get my kewpie doll back now?
July 8th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Icehawk, have you read the whole report?
The 56% includes a return on capital. Something not expected of rail, so take that away we are up to 72%. Take into account the dramatic cut in particulates from reducing diesel sulphur levels by 97%, and ignore the monetisation of noise (rail produces that too) and we are up to a 91% cost recovery.
Given rail freight has its infrastructure operating and replacement costs subsidised, the 9% isn’t much - especially when you take into account that local roads have a 50% or so subsidy from ratepayers.
You could have quoted how the marginal environmental costs of rail vs road freight in the same study are inconclusive, as one case says rail is lower than road, another says the opposite, and another says the same.
No, Icehawk, abandon the church of the train worship. Trains are no better than trucks, RUC from trucks until the past few years has more than recovered the marginal maintenance costs attributable to them. It has just got out of kilter now that all petrol excise is hypothecated to the NLTF - simple as that.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Icehawk.
It’s rather unfortunate you don’t appear to understand the impact of inflation on GST. It has *nothing* to do with consumption. For your benefit let me explain;
Ø 1 litre of fuel @ $1 per litre provides approximately 11cents GST in 2004
Ø 1 litre of fuel @ $2 per litre provides approximately 22cents GST in 2008
The effect? – you still only have 1 litre of fuel but in 2008 you have paid double the amount of GST than you did in 2004. are you clear?
If you are also trying to say that unlike consumption, household expenditure remains static, despite inflation then you are walking around on a different planet. Fuel, like electricity is regarded as a necessity by most households. The result is they are now spending greater sums each week to keep their heads above the water
August 21st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I think there’ll be many votes for the Greens from the Asian community, If there would have some thing for them. As this problem is in most place and you have helped to clear, Therefore there can be demand like heavier sentences or some kind of Singaporean response which continue to response you.
Patrich you convey a good horizon of rising inflation in terms of fuel but this consumption can be change through some invention in substitution of fuel.
We need proper methods/measures against-
“Ø 1 litre of fuel @ $1 per litre provides approximately 11cents GST in 2004
Ø 1 litre of fuel @ $2 per litre provides approximately 22cents GST in 2008″
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