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	<title>Comments on: Truckies&#8217; torment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/</link>
	<description>hopping along the corridors of power</description>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48709</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 05:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48709</guid>
		<description>georgedarroch, You need to factor in the base rate charged for costs that are not related to the weight of the vehicle. Back when most construction funding was being spent improving the safety of inter-urban highways the base rate for powered vehicles was $17 per 1,000 km, roughly in line with the petrol tax at 10l/100km. 

Subtract $17 for fixed costs from the 2 tonne car rate leaves 40 cents for actual wear-and-tear on the road. Take that 40 cents and increase it exponentially (3rd power) and the result is very close to the heavy vehicle RUCs minus $17 (trailers are only charged $9). Closely spaced axles seem to follow roughly a 2.5 power curve.

Canterbury University has used Transit&#039;s CAPTIF centre to identify how different suspensions and spacing between trucks can dramaticaly reduce the damage, mainly to do with the elasticity of the gravel road base. The 2001 review of the MoT&#039;s cost allocation model is the best source of reasonably up to data info on the subject of roading costs and where the money should come from. Good rainy Sunday reading material but best skim through to the bits you&#039;re really interested in otherwise it can become a cure for insomnia.
http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Report-3Apr01.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>georgedarroch, You need to factor in the base rate charged for costs that are not related to the weight of the vehicle. Back when most construction funding was being spent improving the safety of inter-urban highways the base rate for powered vehicles was $17 per 1,000 km, roughly in line with the petrol tax at 10l/100km. </p>
<p>Subtract $17 for fixed costs from the 2 tonne car rate leaves 40 cents for actual wear-and-tear on the road. Take that 40 cents and increase it exponentially (3rd power) and the result is very close to the heavy vehicle RUCs minus $17 (trailers are only charged $9). Closely spaced axles seem to follow roughly a 2.5 power curve.</p>
<p>Canterbury University has used Transit&#8217;s CAPTIF centre to identify how different suspensions and spacing between trucks can dramaticaly reduce the damage, mainly to do with the elasticity of the gravel road base. The 2001 review of the MoT&#8217;s cost allocation model is the best source of reasonably up to data info on the subject of roading costs and where the money should come from. Good rainy Sunday reading material but best skim through to the bits you&#8217;re really interested in otherwise it can become a cure for insomnia.<br />
<a href="http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Report-3Apr01.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Rep ort-3Apr01.pdf</a>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48709" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48709', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48709-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48709" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48709', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48709-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48709-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: georgedarroch</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48701</link>
		<dc:creator>georgedarroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48701</guid>
		<description>Kevyn, RUCs increase at a greater than linear rate, but certainly not at the level required to equal the costs they impose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevyn, RUCs increase at a greater than linear rate, but certainly not at the level required to equal the costs they impose.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48701" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48701', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48701-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48701" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48701', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48701-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48701-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48541</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48541</guid>
		<description>unaha-closp, RUCs halve the amount of road damage compared with fuel taxes by charging exponentially for higher axle weights. The skyrocketing price of diesel is the correct solution to your conundrum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unaha-closp, RUCs halve the amount of road damage compared with fuel taxes by charging exponentially for higher axle weights. The skyrocketing price of diesel is the correct solution to your conundrum.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48541" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48541', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48541-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48541" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48541', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48541-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48541-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: unaha-closp</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48539</link>
		<dc:creator>unaha-closp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48539</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Maybe Friday’s traffic jam is going to be an oblique protest in support of the Green Party?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Could be, would require a more constructive attitude on the part of the Green movement.

The RUC is an enviromentally unfriendly tax which is marginally anti-carbon efficiency.  The RUC is charged equivalently to a truck operating efficiently at 80 kph and inefficiently at 110 kph.  The per km method of road charging reduces the benefit of fuel efficient operation and is therefore marginally polluting. It should be scrapped and replaced with a comensurate level carbon tax on diesel.  

Instead of being constructive our Green movement is much more likely to denigrate the trucking industry and call them a big business lobby group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Maybe Friday’s traffic jam is going to be an oblique protest in support of the Green Party?</p></blockquote>
<p>Could be, would require a more constructive attitude on the part of the Green movement.</p>
<p>The RUC is an enviromentally unfriendly tax which is marginally anti-carbon efficiency.  The RUC is charged equivalently to a truck operating efficiently at 80 kph and inefficiently at 110 kph.  The per km method of road charging reduces the benefit of fuel efficient operation and is therefore marginally polluting. It should be scrapped and replaced with a comensurate level carbon tax on diesel.  </p>
<p>Instead of being constructive our Green movement is much more likely to denigrate the trucking industry and call them a big business lobby group.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48539" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48539', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48539-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48539" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48539', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48539-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48539-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: unaha-closp</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48535</link>
		<dc:creator>unaha-closp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48535</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Maybe Friday’s traffic jam is going to be an oblique protest in support of the Green Party?&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe it is, pity you missed the opportunity.  The Greens should be calling for a abolishment of the RUC and its replacement with carbon taxes on diesel of commensurate value.  

The RUC is a fixed charge per km driven and as such is badly increasing enviromental pollution.  A truck driving at 80 kph maximising efficiency is charged the same as a truck driving at 110 kph burning 40% more fuel - and because the truck driving faster is taking less time the RUC is effectively encouraging pollution.  

The Greens are missing an opportunity to use the good publicity generated by the Road Transport Forum to promote enviromental policy.  Instead preferring to denigrate the RTF as a bunch of greedy pricks led by a &quot;former National Party MP&quot; (party of John &quot;greedy prick&quot; Key) and basically say that NZ needs to raise the RUC to pay for more roads.  What gives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Maybe Friday’s traffic jam is going to be an oblique protest in support of the Green Party?</i></p>
<p>Maybe it is, pity you missed the opportunity.  The Greens should be calling for a abolishment of the RUC and its replacement with carbon taxes on diesel of commensurate value.  </p>
<p>The RUC is a fixed charge per km driven and as such is badly increasing enviromental pollution.  A truck driving at 80 kph maximising efficiency is charged the same as a truck driving at 110 kph burning 40% more fuel &#8211; and because the truck driving faster is taking less time the RUC is effectively encouraging pollution.  </p>
<p>The Greens are missing an opportunity to use the good publicity generated by the Road Transport Forum to promote enviromental policy.  Instead preferring to denigrate the RTF as a bunch of greedy pricks led by a &#8220;former National Party MP&#8221; (party of John &#8220;greedy prick&#8221; Key) and basically say that NZ needs to raise the RUC to pay for more roads.  What gives?
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48535" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48535', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48535-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48535" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48535', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48535-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48535-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48524</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48524</guid>
		<description>Critical mass is a protest at the domination of the motor car hence the critical mass &quot;rallies&quot; in Christchurch have always started in the CBD at 5pm to create maximum disruption to the maximum number of other road users. It doesn&#039;t seem to have dawned on these protesters that riding en mass through amber/red lights defeats the pedestrian pre-emption at many CBD intersections. The only reason critical mass works is because cyclists don&#039;t get $400 if they don&#039;t produce ID and they can&#039;t be traced from the bicycle registration number, so it&#039;s not worth the hassle to the cops. Much easier to waste road safety resources raising revenue from noisy exhausts. I haven&#039;t heard any complaints of convoys of trucks running red lights and relying on tolerance of other road users to prevent potential fatal collissions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Critical mass is a protest at the domination of the motor car hence the critical mass &#8220;rallies&#8221; in Christchurch have always started in the CBD at 5pm to create maximum disruption to the maximum number of other road users. It doesn&#8217;t seem to have dawned on these protesters that riding en mass through amber/red lights defeats the pedestrian pre-emption at many CBD intersections. The only reason critical mass works is because cyclists don&#8217;t get $400 if they don&#8217;t produce ID and they can&#8217;t be traced from the bicycle registration number, so it&#8217;s not worth the hassle to the cops. Much easier to waste road safety resources raising revenue from noisy exhausts. I haven&#8217;t heard any complaints of convoys of trucks running red lights and relying on tolerance of other road users to prevent potential fatal collissions.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48524" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48524', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48524-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48524" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48524', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48524-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48524-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: bjchip</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48523</link>
		<dc:creator>bjchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48523</guid>
		<description>The nasty thing about a diesel engine is that it does NOT run on methane, lng or cng.   Alternate fuels are strictly bio-diesel variations. 

respectfully 
BJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The nasty thing about a diesel engine is that it does NOT run on methane, lng or cng.   Alternate fuels are strictly bio-diesel variations. </p>
<p>respectfully<br />
BJ
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48523" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48523', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48523-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48523" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48523', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48523-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48523-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Presse-puree</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48517</link>
		<dc:creator>Presse-puree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48517</guid>
		<description>&gt; Ever seen a cyclist arrested on a critical mass protest ride?

How is that comparable ?

Truck blocking roads and a group of bikes that at worse slow few motorists down for 1-2 minutes

http://www.criticalmass.org.nz/
And Critical Mass is not a protest.
It&#039;s a celebration and a promotion of a mode of transport</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Ever seen a cyclist arrested on a critical mass protest ride?</p>
<p>How is that comparable ?</p>
<p>Truck blocking roads and a group of bikes that at worse slow few motorists down for 1-2 minutes</p>
<p><a href="http://www.criticalmass.org.nz/" rel="nofollow">http://www.criticalmass.org.nz/</a><br />
And Critical Mass is not a protest.<br />
It&#8217;s a celebration and a promotion of a mode of transport
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48517" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48517', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48517-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48517" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48517', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48517-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48517-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48510</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48510</guid>
		<description>Think there were some arrests, or at least threats of arrest, on the naked bike ride in Auckland a few years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think there were some arrests, or at least threats of arrest, on the naked bike ride in Auckland a few years ago.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48510" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48510', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48510-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48510" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48510', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48510-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48510-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48509</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48509</guid>
		<description>haz, Ever seen a cyclist arrested on a critical mass protest ride?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haz, Ever seen a cyclist arrested on a critical mass protest ride?
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48509" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48509', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48509-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48509" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48509', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48509-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48509-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48471</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48471</guid>
		<description>Exactly! Though in this case, &#039;smarter&#039; might get them some abuse from drivers! It&#039;s more of a tourist attraction in Queen St at the moment...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly! Though in this case, &#8217;smarter&#8217; might get them some abuse from drivers! It&#8217;s more of a tourist attraction in Queen St at the moment&#8230;
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48471" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48471', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48471-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48471" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48471', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48471-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48471-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: BluePeter</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48470</link>
		<dc:creator>BluePeter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48470</guid>
		<description>Truck drivers are clearly smarter than Happy Valley protesters. 

What law are they breaking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truck drivers are clearly smarter than Happy Valley protesters. </p>
<p>What law are they breaking?
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48470" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48470', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48470-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48470" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48470', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48470-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48470-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48467</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48467</guid>
		<description>I think they&#039;re just driving around, not so much just sitting there blocking the road...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they&#8217;re just driving around, not so much just sitting there blocking the road&#8230;
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48467" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48467', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48467-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48467" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48467', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48467-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48467-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: haz</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48464</link>
		<dc:creator>haz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48464</guid>
		<description>Not so long ago  a group of Happy Valley protesters were arrested for blocking the rail line just outside CHCH - gee, I wonder if any truckies will be arrested today for blocking roads ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so long ago  a group of Happy Valley protesters were arrested for blocking the rail line just outside CHCH &#8211; gee, I wonder if any truckies will be arrested today for blocking roads ?
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48464" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48464', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48464-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48464" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48464', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48464-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48464-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48451</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48451</guid>
		<description>kahikatea, First, let me apologise for the worse than usual typing in my original response. What I meant to say was that the STCC authors argued that since Tranzrail has to earn a profit from it&#039;s tracks then a comparison of road and rail costs must apply the same requirement to roads. They also excluded GST contributions to the consolidated account whilst including external cost funded from the consolidated account.

In summary the STCC figures are (in millions):

RUCs, rego = $785
GST, PAYE  = $0
Total payments = 785
Cap. return = $1105
Road works =$331
Police, fire  = $89
Externalities=$669
Total Costs = $1089 = 72% payed for (GST excluded)
Plus Cap Ret=$2194 = 36% payed for (GST excluded)
Excluding capital return on non-recoverable assets = $1399 = 56% payed for (GST excluded). You&#039;ll have to read the full report for a proper explanation of why there are recoverable and non-recoverable assets.

[Heavy] Veh. Operating &amp; Ownership Costs = $5038 @ 12.5% = $629.75
This is $40m or 6% less than the costs to the consolidated account.
Adding this amount of GST changes the three percentages given above to 130%,  65% , 101% repsectively.

&quot;Also, how do they determine what proportion of the opportunity cost from not privatising roads to assign as a cost of trucking, as opposed to a cost of car travel, buses, motorbikes, pushbikes and sheep herding?&quot;
As Scott said, they used the MoT&#039;s road cost allocation model.
http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Report-3Apr01.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kahikatea, First, let me apologise for the worse than usual typing in my original response. What I meant to say was that the STCC authors argued that since Tranzrail has to earn a profit from it&#8217;s tracks then a comparison of road and rail costs must apply the same requirement to roads. They also excluded GST contributions to the consolidated account whilst including external cost funded from the consolidated account.</p>
<p>In summary the STCC figures are (in millions):</p>
<p>RUCs, rego = $785<br />
GST, PAYE  = $0<br />
Total payments = 785<br />
Cap. return = $1105<br />
Road works =$331<br />
Police, fire  = $89<br />
Externalities=$669<br />
Total Costs = $1089 = 72% payed for (GST excluded)<br />
Plus Cap Ret=$2194 = 36% payed for (GST excluded)<br />
Excluding capital return on non-recoverable assets = $1399 = 56% payed for (GST excluded). You&#8217;ll have to read the full report for a proper explanation of why there are recoverable and non-recoverable assets.</p>
<p>[Heavy] Veh. Operating &amp; Ownership Costs = $5038 @ 12.5% = $629.75<br />
This is $40m or 6% less than the costs to the consolidated account.<br />
Adding this amount of GST changes the three percentages given above to 130%,  65% , 101% repsectively.</p>
<p>&#8220;Also, how do they determine what proportion of the opportunity cost from not privatising roads to assign as a cost of trucking, as opposed to a cost of car travel, buses, motorbikes, pushbikes and sheep herding?&#8221;<br />
As Scott said, they used the MoT&#8217;s road cost allocation model.<br />
<a href="http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Report-3Apr01.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mot.govt.nz/assets/NewPDFs/Cost-Allocation-Review-Final-Rep ort-3Apr01.pdf</a>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48451" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48451', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48451-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48451" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48451', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48451-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48451-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevyn</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48450</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48450</guid>
		<description>Frog, Please let’s put this in the correct context: the RUCs ona five tonne truck have just increased by 15%. The fleet average is 10%. The Government&#039;s claim of 7% is a brilliant example of &lt;b&gt; lies, damned lies and statistics. &lt;/b&gt; The trick they have used is to decrease RUCs on light trailers by up to 50%, depending on whether the 1 tonne gross wt. trailer has one, two, three or four axles. Nobody pays RUCs on 1 tonne trailers, or 2 or 3 tonnes either. Nevertheless you average the changes for tonnage for each axle configuration you get an average increase of 7%. Exclude these non-paid light trailer RUCs and the avergae increase is 10%.
Between 3 tonnes and 6 tonnes (ie camper vans) the increase is 15%. Above that the increase is 10% until you reach 6 tonne per axle then the percentage increases decline sharply. 6 tonne per axle is the point where most heavy vehicle operators have found that it is cheaper to fit an additional axle than to pay the higher rate of RUCs. Effectively every commercial diesel vehicle has had it&#039;s RUCs increased by 10% or 15% this year and 20% to 30% in the last two years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frog, Please let’s put this in the correct context: the RUCs ona five tonne truck have just increased by 15%. The fleet average is 10%. The Government&#8217;s claim of 7% is a brilliant example of <b> lies, damned lies and statistics. </b> The trick they have used is to decrease RUCs on light trailers by up to 50%, depending on whether the 1 tonne gross wt. trailer has one, two, three or four axles. Nobody pays RUCs on 1 tonne trailers, or 2 or 3 tonnes either. Nevertheless you average the changes for tonnage for each axle configuration you get an average increase of 7%. Exclude these non-paid light trailer RUCs and the avergae increase is 10%.<br />
Between 3 tonnes and 6 tonnes (ie camper vans) the increase is 15%. Above that the increase is 10% until you reach 6 tonne per axle then the percentage increases decline sharply. 6 tonne per axle is the point where most heavy vehicle operators have found that it is cheaper to fit an additional axle than to pay the higher rate of RUCs. Effectively every commercial diesel vehicle has had it&#8217;s RUCs increased by 10% or 15% this year and 20% to 30% in the last two years.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48450" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48450', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48450-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48450" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48450', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48450-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48450-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: libertyscott</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48442</link>
		<dc:creator>libertyscott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48442</guid>
		<description>Remarkable that a protest that would not have happened had the Minister not lied to Tony Friedlander, is being diverted by the left into some bizarre neo-Marxist debate.  Most trucks are owner-operator or contractor run, of course they can strike about whatever they want - they OWN their business.  It is called property rights.  Employees do not own their business, they are contracted to perform services for money.

Kahikatea - The RUC increase is derived from the MOT&#039;s Cost Allocation Model which attributes all government spending from the National Land Transport Fund to all categories of road vehicles and determines the amount that should come from all RUC categories, fuel tax and motor vehicle registration.  Maintenance costs imposed by trucks on state highways are overrecovered by trucks using state highways, and underrecovered by those on local roads, but this is simply because the rates do not differentiate by location.  However rail competes with state highways.

Cars don&#039;t pay congestion costs either, so neither should trucks.  That is an argument for congestion charging, but RUC isn&#039;t a way of doing it in its present form.

The pollution costs have changed radically since the STCC report because that was based on dirty diesel with 1500ppm of sulphur.  That is the primary determinant of particulate outputs.  Now diesel is at 50ppm the impact is dramatically lower.  I would question whether diesel cars are well tuned either, since a fair enough are badly maintained, with inadequate oil changes and the like.   The STCC update should produce an interesting result for the environmental costs.  Remember trains produce the same per locomotive and STCC also said the marginal per tonne km environmental cost of rail vs road varied wildly and sometimes favoured rail sometimes road.

You can argue soundly that all local road costs should come from road users, but half of these are fixed - and not attributable to any particular vehicle type.  You can argue that congestion charging should be introduced. However neither of this will make any more than a tiny difference to the road vs rail competitive position.   The government has been ploughing money into rail through subsidies so rail is no longer paying its costs like STCC reported. 

Quite simply, while the RUC increase is justified on the face of current spending - by no means are trucks NOT paying their fair share in a way that makes any real difference to rail freight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remarkable that a protest that would not have happened had the Minister not lied to Tony Friedlander, is being diverted by the left into some bizarre neo-Marxist debate.  Most trucks are owner-operator or contractor run, of course they can strike about whatever they want &#8211; they OWN their business.  It is called property rights.  Employees do not own their business, they are contracted to perform services for money.</p>
<p>Kahikatea &#8211; The RUC increase is derived from the MOT&#8217;s Cost Allocation Model which attributes all government spending from the National Land Transport Fund to all categories of road vehicles and determines the amount that should come from all RUC categories, fuel tax and motor vehicle registration.  Maintenance costs imposed by trucks on state highways are overrecovered by trucks using state highways, and underrecovered by those on local roads, but this is simply because the rates do not differentiate by location.  However rail competes with state highways.</p>
<p>Cars don&#8217;t pay congestion costs either, so neither should trucks.  That is an argument for congestion charging, but RUC isn&#8217;t a way of doing it in its present form.</p>
<p>The pollution costs have changed radically since the STCC report because that was based on dirty diesel with 1500ppm of sulphur.  That is the primary determinant of particulate outputs.  Now diesel is at 50ppm the impact is dramatically lower.  I would question whether diesel cars are well tuned either, since a fair enough are badly maintained, with inadequate oil changes and the like.   The STCC update should produce an interesting result for the environmental costs.  Remember trains produce the same per locomotive and STCC also said the marginal per tonne km environmental cost of rail vs road varied wildly and sometimes favoured rail sometimes road.</p>
<p>You can argue soundly that all local road costs should come from road users, but half of these are fixed &#8211; and not attributable to any particular vehicle type.  You can argue that congestion charging should be introduced. However neither of this will make any more than a tiny difference to the road vs rail competitive position.   The government has been ploughing money into rail through subsidies so rail is no longer paying its costs like STCC reported. </p>
<p>Quite simply, while the RUC increase is justified on the face of current spending &#8211; by no means are trucks NOT paying their fair share in a way that makes any real difference to rail freight.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48442" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48442', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48442-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48442" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48442', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48442-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48442-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: john-ston</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48441</link>
		<dc:creator>john-ston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48441</guid>
		<description>&quot;Train frequency can respond to demand - unless, like on the Auckland Western line, there remain single-track sections of the rail network - an issue that is being addressed, albeit more slowly than most of us in West Auckland would like.&quot;

Toad, in Auckland, train frequency has not been responding to demand. I bet you that any or all of the peak services on the Southern and Eastern Line tomorrow will make a sardine tin look comfortable. You Westies have trains that leave Britomart in the afternoon full of air, and are getting more services in two weeks, while the long suffering commuters of the South and East have to put up with services in hot, crowded and noisy ADKs with no chance of more services in the near future.

When are they going to spend money on us? The Eastern Line is full of speed restrictions that are slowing down the services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Train frequency can respond to demand &#8211; unless, like on the Auckland Western line, there remain single-track sections of the rail network &#8211; an issue that is being addressed, albeit more slowly than most of us in West Auckland would like.&#8221;</p>
<p>Toad, in Auckland, train frequency has not been responding to demand. I bet you that any or all of the peak services on the Southern and Eastern Line tomorrow will make a sardine tin look comfortable. You Westies have trains that leave Britomart in the afternoon full of air, and are getting more services in two weeks, while the long suffering commuters of the South and East have to put up with services in hot, crowded and noisy ADKs with no chance of more services in the near future.</p>
<p>When are they going to spend money on us? The Eastern Line is full of speed restrictions that are slowing down the services.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48441" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48441', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48441-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48441" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48441', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48441-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48441-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: OutinFront</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48440</link>
		<dc:creator>OutinFront</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48440</guid>
		<description>ash: Truckies like being truckies. You&#039;d be better of trying to re-skill the laid off workers from Fisher and Paykel....if you can get their attention before the head for Australia where they still make things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ash: Truckies like being truckies. You&#8217;d be better of trying to re-skill the laid off workers from Fisher and Paykel&#8230;.if you can get their attention before the head for Australia where they still make things.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48440" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48440', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48440-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48440" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48440', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48440-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48440-total" >0</small>)</p>
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		<title>By: OutinFront</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48439</link>
		<dc:creator>OutinFront</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/07/03/truckies-torment/#comment-48439</guid>
		<description>Mr Dennis: I agree. There should be fewer trucks. Electrified rail is the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Dennis: I agree. There should be fewer trucks. Electrified rail is the future.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-48439" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48439', 'add', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" /> <small id="karma-48439-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-48439" src="http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('48439', 'subtract', 'blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" /> <small id="karma-48439-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small> (<small id="karma-48439-total" >0</small>)</p>
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