Icehawk: I was quoting Campbell, who was quoting Dunne, who was quoting Colbert. While all that was happening the half bald goose escaped.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

“I think it was [Stephen] Colbert who said about plucking the goose, in order to get then most out of it, for the most benefit”

No, dear Frog, not [Steven] Colbert. It’s much older than him.

The quote is:

“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least possible amount of hissing”
Jean-Baptiste Colbert, French Finance Minister for 1665-1683.

He wasn’t just talking about people complain about taxes. He was talking about the way that France’s hundreds of different tax laws had distorted the economy – a point Adam Smith also made comparing France and England at the time. Taxes reduce economic output by reducing incentives: but choosing what to tax and how you can reduce the damage done to the economy, in particular by going for simpler taxes. Which is Dunne’s point.

I agree with Colbert, but I think Dunne’s wrong. Colbert’s ideas, of course, suggest that really you should tax things you want to discourage (like pollution) instead of things you want to encourage (like earnings).

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

I have to agree with the Optimist here; the fact of the matter is that the top 25% of income earners pay nearly 80% of all income tax in New Zealand, so they are always going to disproportionally benefit from tax cuts; unless you are looking at a zero tax bracket, and even after you introduce it, you are going to have that same problem.

Personally, I am of the view that we should have a zero bracket to $20k; a 21% bracket to $45k; a 33% bracket to $80k and the 39% bracket above it. It may cost a fortune, but it will benefit a lot of people and bring our taxes more in line with Australia.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Don’t get confused between wealth and income. A lot of people on high incomes (most?!) have no wealth and live with very little fat in the system. Their spending is just as high as their income, or higher, and they are really just a cog in the wheel.

I remember living near a posh street in the US where everyone had two brand new cars, new house, gardener, big TV etc. etc. But when one household’s fridge broke they had to ditch the cleaner to pay the monthly HP on a new fridge.

If you want to soak the risk, you need to look beyond income. A good wealth tax would be best for that.

Also the reason why tax cuts favour those on higher incomes (not ‘the rich’) is that they are paying more tax. Tax increases penalise those on higher incomes more for the same reason.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

“UF close to pulling support for real estate Bill

UnitedFuture leader Peter Dunne says the party will withdraw its support for the Real Estate Agents Bill, currently before a select committee, unless there are major changes to the legislation and the sponsoring Minister, Clayton Cosgrove, adopts a more consultative attitude. [give in]

“It was clear from today’s Morning Report interview that Mr Cosgrove is maintaining a belligerent, bully boy attitude towards the [nice] Real Estate Institute, and his claims to be consulting with the Institute are undermined by his inability even to get the name of the Institute’s President right,� he said [tut, tut, tut ....Cleland, Crookland... Dirtbag].

“There is no doubt that the real estate industry needs better processes to clear out the sharks and the dodgy operators, but that won’t be achieved by bellowing at everyone and listening to no-one.

“UnitedFuture wants to see workable legislation that is signed up to by all the major players and will achieve real gains for the New Zealand public,� said Mr Dunne.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00248.htm

I recall Dunne speaking out on behalf of the tobacco lobby

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Thanks for the effort frog.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

StephenR: Brian Easton has a quick summary of income distribution during the 1980s and 1990s. Prof S. Chatterjee at Massey University did similar studies that showed a significant shift of wealth during the 1990s from the poor to the wealthy. In other words they show that 20% of NZers got wealthier in real terms during the 1990s but 60% (those on low and middle incomes) got poorer.

Edge: The point I was making is that Dunne professes to the electorate to be positioning himself to the centre whereas he is in fact positioning himself economically to the right (especially on issues of income distribution). His income splitting proposal is another example of this. That means he can’t be the moderating influence on National that people might be looking for.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

Is it really a step to the right? Hasn’t Dunne pushed tax rates of around this level for quite a while?

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

frog, it would be great if you could explain statements like “income distribution – one of the biggest failings of the 1990s National Government ” for those of us who don’t take all such statements (perhaps also ‘failed policies of the 80s’) as a given like you do…

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)

National are a moderate centrist party. Why should anyone be “worried”? The sensible center is Dunnes professed natural home, isn’t it?

I guess even Anderton looks right-wing to the Greens, huh.

Like or Dislike: 0  0 (0)