Comments on: A one cow economy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:09:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: treesoftomorrow http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43256 treesoftomorrow Wed, 14 May 2008 20:45:05 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43256 some biofuels are bad. fossil fuels will run out... some biofuels are bad. fossil fuels will run out…

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]]> By: treesoftomorrow http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43255 treesoftomorrow Wed, 14 May 2008 20:44:12 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43255 the problem with that you said is it is all opinion, no facts or references. ----------------------- dbuckley Says: May 14th, 2008 at 2:52 pm The problem with biofuels is that they are in part and in theory good, and partly and mostly in practice bad. It would be good if we could use algae to make the biofuels, but we don’t, we use crops. This is the bad bit. But… the Green party have this misconception that the subtleties of that argument can be explained to the general public, whereas in rality it cant. The message needs to be readjusted to account for world realities. Here it is: BIOFUELS ARE BAD. Go with it. the problem with that you said is it is all opinion, no facts or references.

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dbuckley Says:

May 14th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
The problem with biofuels is that they are in part and in theory good, and partly and mostly in practice bad. It would be good if we could use algae to make the biofuels, but we don’t, we use crops. This is the bad bit.

But… the Green party have this misconception that the subtleties of that argument can be explained to the general public, whereas in rality it cant. The message needs to be readjusted to account for world realities.

Here it is: BIOFUELS ARE BAD.

Go with it.

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]]> By: treesoftomorrow http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43254 treesoftomorrow Wed, 14 May 2008 20:43:17 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43254 i wonder if this closure is linked with the planned fonterra style merge craig norgate is working on for the meat industries i wonder if this closure is linked with the planned fonterra style merge craig norgate is working on for the meat industries

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]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43161 kahikatea Wed, 14 May 2008 05:00:38 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43161 # kahikatea Says: May 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pm > Of course, most people who wanted to promote biofuels for their own profit have used green-sounding arguments, because they figured it would help convince people. an interesting historical parallel - Adolf Hitler often said the Third Reich was about bringing peace to Europe, because he figured it would get him more support. # kahikatea Says:
May 13th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

> Of course, most people who wanted to promote biofuels for their own profit have used green-sounding arguments, because they figured it would help convince people.

an interesting historical parallel – Adolf Hitler often said the Third Reich was about bringing peace to Europe, because he figured it would get him more support.

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]]> By: StephenR http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43147 StephenR Wed, 14 May 2008 02:57:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43147 Then it wouldn't be too hard to say that they're 'rabidly anti-science luddites' because they ' aren't ' open to the advances offered by tallow, woodchips, algae, crop waste and whatever the other one is... Then it wouldn’t be too hard to say that they’re ‘rabidly anti-science luddites’ because they ‘ aren’t ‘ open to the advances offered by tallow, woodchips, algae, crop waste and whatever the other one is…

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]]> By: dbuckley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43146 dbuckley Wed, 14 May 2008 02:52:19 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43146 The problem with biofuels is that they are in part and in theory good, and partly and mostly in practice bad. It would be good if we could use algae to make the biofuels, but we don't, we use crops. This is the bad bit. But... the Green party have this misconception that the subtleties of that argument can be explained to the general public, whereas in rality it cant. The message needs to be readjusted to account for world realities. Here it is: BIOFUELS ARE BAD. Go with it. The problem with biofuels is that they are in part and in theory good, and partly and mostly in practice bad. It would be good if we could use algae to make the biofuels, but we don’t, we use crops. This is the bad bit.

But… the Green party have this misconception that the subtleties of that argument can be explained to the general public, whereas in rality it cant. The message needs to be readjusted to account for world realities.

Here it is: BIOFUELS ARE BAD.

Go with it.

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]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43087 kahikatea Tue, 13 May 2008 07:45:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43087 Of course, most people who wanted to promote biofuels for their own profit have used green-sounding arguments, because they figured it would help convince people. Of course, most people who wanted to promote biofuels for their own profit have used green-sounding arguments, because they figured it would help convince people.

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]]> By: turnip28 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43065 turnip28 Tue, 13 May 2008 03:04:37 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43065 Panda what are you talking about. biofuels are being pushed in the US by the corn lobby. BTW corn to biofuel isn't even energy positive. Panda what are you talking about. biofuels are being pushed in the US by the corn lobby.

BTW corn to biofuel isn’t even energy positive.

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]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43055 toad Tue, 13 May 2008 01:15:33 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43055 And something to do with the War for Oil not going quite as well as they would have liked too, I suspect. And something to do with the War for Oil not going quite as well as they would have liked too, I suspect.

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]]> By: StephenR http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43054 StephenR Tue, 13 May 2008 01:09:34 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43054 Like I said, corn lobby. And as a way to reduce dependence on imported oil, as they have being talking about since, hmm, round 2001? It might have something to do with that? Like I said, corn lobby. And as a way to reduce dependence on imported oil, as they have being talking about since, hmm, round 2001? It might have something to do with that?

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]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43053 toad Tue, 13 May 2008 01:07:48 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43053 StephenR, I suspect panda means "greenies" like the Shrub and Cheney and their neocon apologists. StephenR, I suspect panda means “greenies” like the Shrub and Cheney and their neocon apologists.

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]]> By: StephenR http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43052 StephenR Tue, 13 May 2008 00:55:03 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43052 *which* greenies? *which* greenies?

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]]> By: panda http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43051 panda Tue, 13 May 2008 00:29:17 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43051 Toad Its an inconvenient truth but its the law of Unintended consequences you know as well as I do that Greenies around the world have been pushing for and building up a climate of fear amongst the general population and telling them that one of the ways to halt "climate change" is to convert to bio fuels Some time in the last 18 months a tipping point was meet and every man and his dog including the Americans went ok, biofuels are the way to go Bugger the consequences Toad
Its an inconvenient truth but its the law of Unintended consequences

you know as well as I do that Greenies around the world have been pushing for and building up a climate of fear amongst the general population and telling them that one of the ways to halt “climate change” is to convert to bio fuels

Some time in the last 18 months a tipping point was meet and every man and his dog including the Americans went ok, biofuels are the way to go

Bugger the consequences

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]]> By: big bro http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43050 big bro Mon, 12 May 2008 23:50:55 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43050 Frog Pray tell what type of things the govt should be promoting as part of this "diverse economy"? Frog

Pray tell what type of things the govt should be promoting as part of this “diverse economy”?

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]]> By: StephenR http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43049 StephenR Mon, 12 May 2008 23:50:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43049 I don't think it's malicious toad (well, originally). People associated biofuels with low carbon, reducing GHGs=saving the planet. All of which is generally associated with green parties/'greenies'. Various 'greens' probably have been very keen on biofuels, and others not so much. I don’t think it’s malicious toad (well, originally). People associated biofuels with low carbon, reducing GHGs=saving the planet. All of which is generally associated with green parties/’greenies’. Various ‘greens’ probably have been very keen on biofuels, and others not so much.

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]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43048 toad Mon, 12 May 2008 23:46:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43048 Panda, the Green Party has always strongly opposed biofuel production that either destroys forests that are carbon sinks or takes land out of food production into biofuel production. The Green Party has never said biofuels are "the great Saviour of the planet" - they clearly are not. The only place for biofuels is if they can be made from agricultural or industrial waste, and the potential from those sources is limited. Jeanette Fitzsimons published this <a href="http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/other11274.html" rel="nofollow">factsheet</a> on biofuels last year. Tell me, panda, what is the source of the disinformation that the Greens see biofuels as the "Saviour of the planet" - this is not the first time I have seen lies like this on blogs. Someone is obviously running a rather malicious campaign of porkies here! Panda, the Green Party has always strongly opposed biofuel production that either destroys forests that are carbon sinks or takes land out of food production into biofuel production.

The Green Party has never said biofuels are “the great Saviour of the planet” – they clearly are not.

The only place for biofuels is if they can be made from agricultural or industrial waste, and the potential from those sources is limited.

Jeanette Fitzsimons published this factsheet on biofuels last year.

Tell me, panda, what is the source of the disinformation that the Greens see biofuels as the “Saviour of the planet” – this is not the first time I have seen lies like this on blogs. Someone is obviously running a rather malicious campaign of porkies here!

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]]> By: StephenR http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43047 StephenR Mon, 12 May 2008 23:37:22 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43047 I would tend to look towards Bush and the US corn lobby for 'banging on about biofuels', they are the greens you should be looking at. All those subsidies...gee! Price of a barrel of oil might have had something to do with it too, maybe. Who's 'us' Panda? I would tend to look towards Bush and the US corn lobby for ‘banging on about biofuels’, they are the greens you should be looking at. All those subsidies…gee! Price of a barrel of oil might have had something to do with it too, maybe.

Who’s ‘us’ Panda?

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]]> By: SleepyTreehugger http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43046 SleepyTreehugger Mon, 12 May 2008 23:30:44 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43046 Panda, Well maybe that $50 million would be better spent paying for cleaning up the sh*t that you farmers put into our rivers, rather than socialising the costs as you guys do now. I couldn't continue swimming in Lake Rotorua, because of the algae blooms resulting from nitrate leaching due to intensive farming in the catchment areas and the District Council is paying millions to enable the water quality of the lakes to recover. Colleagues at a rafting company on the Kaituna that I worked at had to get tests to ascertain the effects of constant exposure to toxins from the blooms. In an ideal world the farmers would be paying for that. How much does the government (tax payer) invest in dairy research through the CRIs? How about the $700 million "Fast Forward" wealthfare that the government will dish out to the already wealthy farmers? Funny how conservative farmers don't complain about a handout for themselves yet stamp and scream when they're asked to assume a small tax ("fart tax") that will contribute towards meeting their obligations under the Kyoto protocol. Pretty sad really. Panda,

Well maybe that $50 million would be better spent paying for cleaning up the sh*t that you farmers put into our rivers, rather than socialising the costs as you guys do now.

I couldn’t continue swimming in Lake Rotorua, because of the algae blooms resulting from nitrate leaching due to intensive farming in the catchment areas and the District Council is paying millions to enable the water quality of the lakes to recover.

Colleagues at a rafting company on the Kaituna that I worked at had to get tests to ascertain the effects of constant exposure to toxins from the blooms. In an ideal world the farmers would be paying for that.

How much does the government (tax payer) invest in dairy research through the CRIs? How about the $700 million “Fast Forward” wealthfare that the government will dish out to the already wealthy farmers? Funny how conservative farmers don’t complain about a handout for themselves yet stamp and scream when they’re asked to assume a small tax (“fart tax”) that will contribute towards meeting their obligations under the Kyoto protocol. Pretty sad really.

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]]> By: uk_kiwi http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43045 uk_kiwi Mon, 12 May 2008 23:29:49 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43045 The problem may be to do with their pricing agreement, but this seems to be the inevitable overall outcome of the ETS- industry will move to where there are no carbon/environmental/workers costs to pay, i.e. China; and global carbon emissions will increase rather than decrease. Just a little bit of an externality yeah? The ETS needs to be scrapped, as does Kyoto. It's a nice idea, but we can't afford it. As for diversification of the economy, NZ's economy has never done this very well right from the 1800s. It's just too small. We can afford protectionism of a very few strategic industries, but if we try to protect unprofitable industries wholesale, the end result will surely be bankruptcy. Theoretically creative destruction will mean new industries and technologies will be introduced so that people can move jobs- and looking at unemployment rates this must have happened, the laid off railway workers of the 1980s are now employed doing something else more valuable. We should spend more time incubating and nurturing these new firms than protecting old ones The problem may be to do with their pricing agreement, but this seems to be the inevitable overall outcome of the ETS- industry will move to where there are no carbon/environmental/workers costs to pay, i.e. China; and global carbon emissions will increase rather than decrease. Just a little bit of an externality yeah?

The ETS needs to be scrapped, as does Kyoto. It’s a nice idea, but we can’t afford it.

As for diversification of the economy, NZ’s economy has never done this very well right from the 1800s. It’s just too small. We can afford protectionism of a very few strategic industries, but if we try to protect unprofitable industries wholesale, the end result will surely be bankruptcy.

Theoretically creative destruction will mean new industries and technologies will be introduced so that people can move jobs- and looking at unemployment rates this must have happened, the laid off railway workers of the 1980s are now employed doing something else more valuable. We should spend more time incubating and nurturing these new firms than protecting old ones

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]]> By: panda http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43044 panda Mon, 12 May 2008 23:20:44 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2008/05/13/a-one-cow-economy/#comment-43044 I dont recall saying anything about the green party and bio fuels, I did say "BTW the longer you greenies keep banging on about bio fuels the better it is for us" by the tone of your comment it seems to me some greenies are distancing themselves from the great Saviour of the planet biofuels, now it was been suggested you could be responsible for mass starvation in the third world ? I dont recall saying anything about the green party and bio fuels, I did say

“BTW the longer you greenies keep banging on about bio fuels the better it is for us”

by the tone of your comment it seems to me some greenies are distancing themselves from the great Saviour of the planet biofuels, now it was been suggested you could be responsible for mass starvation in the third world ?

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