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	<title>Comments on: Helping Burma</title>
	<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/</link>
	<description>hopping along the corridors of power</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: SPC</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42767</link>
		<dc:creator>SPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 10:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42767</guid>
		<description>It is entirely consistent to promote free trade (just not making it conditional on the Third World handing over ownership of their services/utililities to to get it) and an increase in GDP foreign aid to .7%. 

However it is unlikely this government will ever do so.  Deferring the goal of increasing it to .35% till National was in power was a dead give away. 

And the fact that they have refused to increase the incomes of students or beneficiaries (with or without children) despite the fact that their real costs have gone up by more than the CPI. If one was to assess what their allowances and incomes would buy in 1999 and today (and even worse as fuel, power, food and rent costs will continue to rise) one could note as large a cut in real standard of living as occured in 1991. 

Despite this, Cullen says he has taken Treasury advice and is not having a no income tax threshold and is focusing tax change (raising the thresholds) on helping those in full-time work. Apparently only the working poor are to receive any assistance, the non working poor or those in casual labour (less than full-time) can expect nothing. Unless they are on Super apparently those on this fixed income are the deserving poor (a large middle class voting block). 

It should provide Greens with the student and beneficiary vote. 

The question is whether Greens can work with National, so we can have the first MMP government supportive of beneficiaries and students since 2002.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is entirely consistent to promote free trade (just not making it conditional on the Third World handing over ownership of their services/utililities to to get it) and an increase in GDP foreign aid to .7%. </p>
<p>However it is unlikely this government will ever do so.  Deferring the goal of increasing it to .35% till National was in power was a dead give away. </p>
<p>And the fact that they have refused to increase the incomes of students or beneficiaries (with or without children) despite the fact that their real costs have gone up by more than the CPI. If one was to assess what their allowances and incomes would buy in 1999 and today (and even worse as fuel, power, food and rent costs will continue to rise) one could note as large a cut in real standard of living as occured in 1991. </p>
<p>Despite this, Cullen says he has taken Treasury advice and is not having a no income tax threshold and is focusing tax change (raising the thresholds) on helping those in full-time work. Apparently only the working poor are to receive any assistance, the non working poor or those in casual labour (less than full-time) can expect nothing. Unless they are on Super apparently those on this fixed income are the deserving poor (a large middle class voting block). </p>
<p>It should provide Greens with the student and beneficiary vote. </p>
<p>The question is whether Greens can work with National, so we can have the first MMP government supportive of beneficiaries and students since 2002.</p>
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		<title>By: john-ston</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42758</link>
		<dc:creator>john-ston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42758</guid>
		<description>"Well first of all, in the Third World, farmers aren’t necessarily those that work the land, but effectively are feudal landlords who work in concert with government to ensure that the landless have no alternative, but to labor on their estates for rates that they decide. So just because trade of agricultural commodities will grow doesn’t mean that the common folk will be much better off."

It depends on which region you look at. South America, I would agree, India, I would agree, but in large parts of Africa, I would disagree - much of the farming there is still collectively done, or people own small holdings and farm off them.

Another thing is that if trade of agricultural economies increases, then there will be demand for more labour - that would push the price of labour up, and benefit the people. The state would get more tax revenue, which would naturally allow them to invest in the country. Don't believe me? Look at Zimbabwe pre-2000 - a prosperous nation where land was in the hands of not that many people; they had some of the best living standards in Africa.

"Where it has worked before, as in the Asian Tiger nations and even China, was when the government worked to ensure a more equitable distribution of land ownership amongst the population, but in Latin America especially a colonial mindset still is firmly entrenched in halls of power."

The Asian Tiger nations and the PRC mostly grew on the basis of highly efficient (in the case of the Tigers) and cheap (in the case of the PRC) manufacturing. Of course, an efficient taxation structure also helped them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well first of all, in the Third World, farmers aren’t necessarily those that work the land, but effectively are feudal landlords who work in concert with government to ensure that the landless have no alternative, but to labor on their estates for rates that they decide. So just because trade of agricultural commodities will grow doesn’t mean that the common folk will be much better off.&#8221;</p>
<p>It depends on which region you look at. South America, I would agree, India, I would agree, but in large parts of Africa, I would disagree - much of the farming there is still collectively done, or people own small holdings and farm off them.</p>
<p>Another thing is that if trade of agricultural economies increases, then there will be demand for more labour - that would push the price of labour up, and benefit the people. The state would get more tax revenue, which would naturally allow them to invest in the country. Don&#8217;t believe me? Look at Zimbabwe pre-2000 - a prosperous nation where land was in the hands of not that many people; they had some of the best living standards in Africa.</p>
<p>&#8220;Where it has worked before, as in the Asian Tiger nations and even China, was when the government worked to ensure a more equitable distribution of land ownership amongst the population, but in Latin America especially a colonial mindset still is firmly entrenched in halls of power.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Asian Tiger nations and the PRC mostly grew on the basis of highly efficient (in the case of the Tigers) and cheap (in the case of the PRC) manufacturing. Of course, an efficient taxation structure also helped them out.</p>
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		<title>By: kahikatea</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42755</link>
		<dc:creator>kahikatea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 05:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42755</guid>
		<description>Sam Buchanan Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

&#62; Removing trade barriers isn’t going to help Burmese as the majority of the country’s exports are designated as military monopolies (teak, gems, rice etc. textiles are an exception, though most major Burmese companies are linked with the military in some way). So trade is merely going to put more money in the hands of the junta.

Yep. Burma's probably the only country I would support across-the-board trade sanctions against. For precisely that reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Buchanan Says:<br />
May 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pm</p>
<p>&gt; Removing trade barriers isn’t going to help Burmese as the majority of the country’s exports are designated as military monopolies (teak, gems, rice etc. textiles are an exception, though most major Burmese companies are linked with the military in some way). So trade is merely going to put more money in the hands of the junta.</p>
<p>Yep. Burma&#8217;s probably the only country I would support across-the-board trade sanctions against. For precisely that reason.</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42733</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 02:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42733</guid>
		<description>just to be clear i was talking about subsidies in relation to ST's 'world' problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just to be clear i was talking about subsidies in relation to ST&#8217;s &#8216;world&#8217; problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42732</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 02:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42732</guid>
		<description>Removing trade barriers isn't going to help Burmese as the majority of the country's exports are designated  as military monopolies (teak, gems, rice etc. textiles are an exception, though most major Burmese companies are linked with the military in some way). So trade is merely going to put more money in the hands of the junta.

China and Russia are the main arms suppliers in recent years. Asean countries provide diplomatic support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Removing trade barriers isn&#8217;t going to help Burmese as the majority of the country&#8217;s exports are designated  as military monopolies (teak, gems, rice etc. textiles are an exception, though most major Burmese companies are linked with the military in some way). So trade is merely going to put more money in the hands of the junta.</p>
<p>China and Russia are the main arms suppliers in recent years. Asean countries provide diplomatic support.</p>
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		<title>By: SleepyTreehugger</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42730</link>
		<dc:creator>SleepyTreehugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42730</guid>
		<description>"Sleepy, you have to admit though that if the United States and Europe got rid of their agricultural subsidies and other trade barriers that it would help massively reduce poverty in the Third World. It is ridiculuous that the European Union is the world’s second largest producer of sugar, considering the climate."

Well first of all, in the Third World, farmers aren't necessarily those that work the land, but effectively are feudal landlords who work in concert with government to ensure that the landless have no alternative, but to labor on their estates for rates that they decide. So just because trade of agricultural commodities will grow doesn't mean that the common folk will be much better off. 

Where it has worked before, as in the Asian Tiger nations and even China, was when the government worked to ensure a more equitable distribution of land ownership amongst the population, but in Latin America especially a colonial mindset still is firmly entrenched in halls of power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sleepy, you have to admit though that if the United States and Europe got rid of their agricultural subsidies and other trade barriers that it would help massively reduce poverty in the Third World. It is ridiculuous that the European Union is the world’s second largest producer of sugar, considering the climate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well first of all, in the Third World, farmers aren&#8217;t necessarily those that work the land, but effectively are feudal landlords who work in concert with government to ensure that the landless have no alternative, but to labor on their estates for rates that they decide. So just because trade of agricultural commodities will grow doesn&#8217;t mean that the common folk will be much better off. </p>
<p>Where it has worked before, as in the Asian Tiger nations and even China, was when the government worked to ensure a more equitable distribution of land ownership amongst the population, but in Latin America especially a colonial mindset still is firmly entrenched in halls of power.</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42729</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42729</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, NZ has "High barriers against apparel (13.4% of the value of imports)". So we're paying 13.4% more than we need to on (some) imported clothes! Rah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, NZ has &#8220;High barriers against apparel (13.4% of the value of imports)&#8221;. So we&#8217;re paying 13.4% more than we need to on (some) imported clothes! Rah!</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42728</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42728</guid>
		<description>Ahuahu, "Also, how do we compare to countries with similar per capita GDP - that would be a better comparative statistic."

The relative levels, and much more are here: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/55/40381862.pdf

and

You can see very interesting reports on the quality of aid each country gives, as well as info on their levels of tariffs etc.. here: http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi/_country/new_zealand</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahuahu, &#8220;Also, how do we compare to countries with similar per capita GDP - that would be a better comparative statistic.&#8221;</p>
<p>The relative levels, and much more are here: <a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/55/40381862.pdf" >http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/55/40381862.pdf</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p>You can see very interesting reports on the quality of aid each country gives, as well as info on their levels of tariffs etc.. here: <a href="http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi/_country/new_zealand" >http://www.cgdev.org/section/initiatives/_active/cdi/_country/new_zeal and</a></p>
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		<title>By: john-ston</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42727</link>
		<dc:creator>john-ston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42727</guid>
		<description>Sleepy, you have to admit though that if the United States and Europe got rid of their agricultural subsidies and other trade barriers that it would help massively reduce poverty in the Third World. It is ridiculuous that the European Union is the world's second largest producer of sugar, considering the climate. Another thing is that many of these subsidies are on non-food commodities; cotton especially. The only heavy food based one is on corn in the United States.

The other thing is that agriculture does not trap an economy. Prior to 2000, Zimbabwe was one of the most prosperous economies in Africa, and it had a mainly agricultural base. New Zealand has a mainly agricultural base, and we aren't Third World. It all comes down to competitive advantage; if a nation has the right soil for it, then they should grow that crop (I'll include animals in the word crop).

About Burma, the tragedy is not the cyclone, the tragedy is a military dictatorship that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, like with North Korea, Sudan and Zimbabwe, the People's Republic of China is a substantial barrier to dealing with that problem. At least the dictators that the United States backed were not complete and utter incompetents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sleepy, you have to admit though that if the United States and Europe got rid of their agricultural subsidies and other trade barriers that it would help massively reduce poverty in the Third World. It is ridiculuous that the European Union is the world&#8217;s second largest producer of sugar, considering the climate. Another thing is that many of these subsidies are on non-food commodities; cotton especially. The only heavy food based one is on corn in the United States.</p>
<p>The other thing is that agriculture does not trap an economy. Prior to 2000, Zimbabwe was one of the most prosperous economies in Africa, and it had a mainly agricultural base. New Zealand has a mainly agricultural base, and we aren&#8217;t Third World. It all comes down to competitive advantage; if a nation has the right soil for it, then they should grow that crop (I&#8217;ll include animals in the word crop).</p>
<p>About Burma, the tragedy is not the cyclone, the tragedy is a military dictatorship that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, like with North Korea, Sudan and Zimbabwe, the People&#8217;s Republic of China is a substantial barrier to dealing with that problem. At least the dictators that the United States backed were not complete and utter incompetents.</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42726</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/05/08/helping-burma/#comment-42726</guid>
		<description>Er, so, we agree then ST? Not sure that anyone is advocating tariffs simply for 'protection' though - perhaps slave labour, conservation concerns and carbon concerns...

I wouldn't personally advocate war as a means purely to help people. I would certainly like to know what countries are say, selling Myanmar weapons or letting their leaders open bank accounts, or letting the generals travel freely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, so, we agree then ST? Not sure that anyone is advocating tariffs simply for &#8216;protection&#8217; though - perhaps slave labour, conservation concerns and carbon concerns&#8230;</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t personally advocate war as a means purely to help people. I would certainly like to know what countries are say, selling Myanmar weapons or letting their leaders open bank accounts, or letting the generals travel freely.</p>
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