Comments on: Flying up the Mokihinui River http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:27:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Flyfishingsteve http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41200 Flyfishingsteve Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:23:34 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41200 Yes we need power but the Mokihinui River is a wilderness treasure that we need lo leave for future generations to enjoy. This river ranks 7th in NZ for its natural values. Leave it alone Meridian. Steve Yes we need power but the Mokihinui River is a wilderness treasure that we need lo leave for future generations to enjoy. This river ranks 7th in NZ for its natural values. Leave it alone Meridian.

Steve

]]> By: Trevor29 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41098 Trevor29 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:18:48 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41098 I have absolutely no idea of the economics. However they have indicated that this new plant will be more efficient than other plants, which means lower fuel costs. That means that they will run it ahead of many of the existing plants which have higher fuel costs due to their lower efficiencies. In one sense this is good for the country since it will save fuel and reduce CO2 emmissions. However it reduces incentives to invest in renewable power generation and burns through our gas supplies, which would be better used in our vehicle fleet. It also means that the plant won't really be just peaking plant. Trevor. I have absolutely no idea of the economics.

However they have indicated that this new plant will be more efficient than other plants, which means lower fuel costs. That means that they will run it ahead of many of the existing plants which have higher fuel costs due to their lower efficiencies. In one sense this is good for the country since it will save fuel and reduce CO2 emmissions. However it reduces incentives to invest in renewable power generation and burns through our gas supplies, which would be better used in our vehicle fleet.

It also means that the plant won’t really be just peaking plant.

Trevor.

]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41092 toad Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:52:49 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41092 Trevor29 said: <i>Genesis are trying to get it approved as a peaking plant, rather than base-load generation, to meet security of supply, etc.</i> Trevor, what are the economics of this? I would have thought that the huge capital cost of building a gas-fired power station would hardly be economic if it were seldom to be feeding into the national grid. Like Marsden B, that fed into the national grid for 9 hours in its entire time of commissioning! Maybe I've got the operational hours slightly wrong here (they were ridiculously minimal though), but it really was one of NZ's most expensive energy white elephants. Trevor29 said: Genesis are trying to get it approved as a peaking plant, rather than base-load generation, to meet security of supply, etc.

Trevor, what are the economics of this? I would have thought that the huge capital cost of building a gas-fired power station would hardly be economic if it were seldom to be feeding into the national grid.

Like Marsden B, that fed into the national grid for 9 hours in its entire time of commissioning! Maybe I’ve got the operational hours slightly wrong here (they were ridiculously minimal though), but it really was one of NZ’s most expensive energy white elephants.

]]> By: Trevor29 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41090 Trevor29 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:37:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41090 What would work even better than more wind power generation is wave power generation, which has the advantage of slower rises and falls in output and is predictable a few days ahead. Unfortunately the various power companies don't appear to want to invest in wave power - probably because they perceive it as too risky or "unproven". The government has made money available for marine power development - enough so they can claim that they are doing something, but too little, too late to be effective and wave is being forced to compete with tidal power for these funds. Really only a token effort. Trevor. What would work even better than more wind power generation is wave power generation, which has the advantage of slower rises and falls in output and is predictable a few days ahead. Unfortunately the various power companies don’t appear to want to invest in wave power - probably because they perceive it as too risky or “unproven”. The government has made money available for marine power development - enough so they can claim that they are doing something, but too little, too late to be effective and wave is being forced to compete with tidal power for these funds. Really only a token effort.

Trevor.

]]> By: Trevor29 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41087 Trevor29 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:56:52 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41087 Toad, Genesis are trying to get it approved as a peaking plant, rather than base-load generation, to meet security of supply, etc. Trevor. Toad,

Genesis are trying to get it approved as a peaking plant, rather than base-load generation, to meet security of supply, etc.

Trevor.

]]> By: Trevor29 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41086 Trevor29 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:55:30 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41086 Many of the new power stations that are likely to come on line in the next few years are actually geothermal. Most of the rest are wind. The two can work reasonably well together, with the wind providing most of the power when it is blowing, while the geothermal can provide the power when it is needed and the wind isn't blowing. To meet peak demands, and to make use of the wind when demand is low, we can add vanadium flow batteries into the mix, where needed (such as near Rodney). Check out: http://www.vrbpower.com/ This may actually be a cheaper option than gas-fired generation for meeting peak demand. Trevor. Many of the new power stations that are likely to come on line in the next few years are actually geothermal. Most of the rest are wind. The two can work reasonably well together, with the wind providing most of the power when it is blowing, while the geothermal can provide the power when it is needed and the wind isn’t blowing.

To meet peak demands, and to make use of the wind when demand is low, we can add vanadium flow batteries into the mix, where needed (such as near Rodney). Check out:
http://www.vrbpower.com/
This may actually be a cheaper option than gas-fired generation for meeting peak demand.

Trevor.

]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41085 toad Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:52:50 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41085 Um, I thoght there was a Government moratorium onbuilding further gas-fired power stations. So why is it that this one seems to be going ahead? What have I missed? Um, I thoght there was a Government moratorium onbuilding further gas-fired power stations.

So why is it that this one seems to be going ahead? What have I missed?

]]> By: Trevor29 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41084 Trevor29 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:48:25 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41084 Genesis's answer apparently is to build a big (240 or 480 MW) more-efficient gas-fired power station. Unfortunately their web site probably won't allow me to grab a simple link: http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/shadomx/apps/fms/fmsdownload.cfm?file_uuid=112BDB45-9765-9C7F-BCD8-46D5954EE02E&siteName=genesis but it is accessible from their front page: http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/ Trevor. Genesis’s answer apparently is to build a big (240 or 480 MW) more-efficient gas-fired power station. Unfortunately their web site probably won’t allow me to grab a simple link:
http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/shadomx/apps/fms/fmsdownload.cfm?file_u uid=112BDB45-9765-9C7F-BCD8-46D5954EE02E&siteName=genesis
but it is accessible from their front page:
http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/

Trevor.

]]> By: andrew http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41077 andrew Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:20:57 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41077 does anyone know the wattage of a street light? for about 5 years now i have been complaining to auckland city council about certain street lights coming on at 3pm (now 2pm) & evidently it is a problem too difficult to fix. any greens on the council? does anyone know the wattage of a street light? for about 5 years now i have been complaining to auckland city council about certain street lights coming on at 3pm (now 2pm) & evidently it is a problem too difficult to fix.
any greens on the council?

]]> By: dbuckley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41074 dbuckley Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:46:04 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/04/14/flying-up-the-mokihinui-river/#comment-41074 It's all very well to say "what about...?" and there are many, many things that are better than burning coal, but, the bottom line is that ideas dont get built or used; proposals <i>on the table</i> get built, and things we have get used. And Tuatara - it absolutely is a choice of two evils, wreck the <b>e</b>nvironment or wreck the <b>E</b>nvironment. Currently (no pun intended) there is no option C that is to not to wreck the Environment/environment. And, just for the record: my towel heater has been off for a very long time indeed. It’s all very well to say “what about…?” and there are many, many things that are better than burning coal, but, the bottom line is that ideas dont get built or used; proposals on the table get built, and things we have get used.

And Tuatara - it absolutely is a choice of two evils, wreck the environment or wreck the Environment. Currently (no pun intended) there is no option C that is to not to wreck the Environment/environment.

And, just for the record: my towel heater has been off for a very long time indeed.

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