“Free trade will improve conditions a lot faster than a closed economy will.”

I 100% absolutely agree with that. For China to become more human rights and environmentally friendly will take time, we have to educate them to our way of thinking and I don’t think blackmail is the way to go.

“We as New Zealanders have absolutely nothing to be proud of.”

Not true, your rugby team has been for many years widely regarded as the best in the world.

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Good on you, Jeanette – another great speech.
I remember reading an article she wrote some time ago about Free Trade asking Who pays for the Free?
In my opinion the only reason Australia is doing better than us is because they never Rogergnomed in the 80′s like we did.
After the next election the Rogering of this country will continue where it left off if/when National get in.

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As an exercise in thinking globally – acting locally I suggest everyone reread Jeanette’s address in reply substituting Auckland for China. Lemon & Auckland doesn’t have the same marketing impact but it is actually what you are buying.

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jingyang Says:
Oh, and as a general PS to this thread, given China’s water and air quality, I wouldn’t recommend eating any Chinese foodstuff that hasn’t been processed to within an inch of its life

Good point.

I struggle with the concept that our farmers are encouraged to export high quality produce, to the point we often can’t get it at a reasonable price here, while the rest of us are reduced to importing cheaper food of questionable quality from who-knows-where.

It just seems that our society has become disjointed somehow.

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BluePeter,

You are right that Australia is wealthy because of its minerals. You are wrong about New Zealand’s tax system being ridiculous. Compared to Australia, New Zealand’s tax system is very simple and streamlined, and as far as I can determine the tax rates are similar.

In Australia, GST doesn’t apply to all items (as it does in NZ), for example food is excluded (may be a good thing). The personal income tax system is very complicated. There are all sorts of rebates and offsets which can be claimed, and the tax returns are horrendously complicated compared to NZ. I can’t see how this is a good thing.

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>>So simply saying “trade� made them wealthy

It did.

Of course, there were other factors, but the key factor is they geared up the manufacturing base. There are obvious parallels with the Chinese manufacturing base – low wages, clear direction, and cheap commodities – mostly electronics, cars and steel.

Which eventually led to a tiger.

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>>has fallen further behind more protected Australia

That has more to do with Australia’s mineral wealth and our ridiculous tax system and employment law.

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BluePeter said

In the last decade, countries that have been more open have achieved double the annual average growth of others.

Actually, no they haven’t. NZ is one of the most open countries and has fallen further behind more protected Australia.

Funny how some people won’t let the facts get in the way of their bias.

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Oh, and as a general PS to this thread, given China’s water and air quality, I wouldn’t recommend eating any Chinese foodstuff that hasn’t been processed to within an inch of its life. Come to think of it..I wouldn’t eat the processed stuff either. Filters and such may remove bacteria from water, but they are not nearly so good at removing chemical toxins.

Especially considering that NZ food is just as readily available and is usually of a high standard, or if it is not you have some recourse. Good luck trying to get compensation for your chemical poisoning from a Chinese company.

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Dear BluePeter,

You refer to the example of Japan as proving that trade is a good thing. If you dig a little deeper I think that you’ll find that a/the Japanese “cheated” outrageously by having very high tariffs and a labyrinthine local distribution system to keep imports down, and that B/ what gave Japan a very good chunk of the initial wealth to rebuild (after being flattened in WW2) was supplying the US army in Korea; C/ the Japanese government enagaged in some very severe union bashing in the 1950s to ensure that wages stayed low and D/ the country has effectively been a one-party state for more than 50 years.

So simply saying “trade” made them wealthy is rather simplistic..and it was not a particularly invisible hand either.

I also sincerely hope that you not advocating that NZ follow their example?

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If Chinese workers were allowed to organise collectively it wouldn’t be so bad, until then i’m not sure it’s going to be able to change its image as the land of sweatshops and a nice wall.

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good article fwwog,

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Heh heh. I stand corrected

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toad Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
If only it were that simple, BluePeter. Trade is like sex – it can be either good or bad. What makes it good or bad depends both on what you do and whom you do it with.

I think that is one of the best quotes I have ever encountered.
There are times I buy Chinese goods (because they are realistically priced, and often innovative) and times I won’t buy Chinese (because it is a product that is available in NZ already). It is a hard decision when you are normally monogamous.

toad Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I’ll probably win the award for the biggest grammar pedant too, but it’s actually a simile rather than a metaphor BluePeter.

Well. it made me simile anyway

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I’ll probably win the award for the biggest grammar pedant too, but it’s actually a simile rather than a metaphor BluePeter.

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Toad wins the award for the most imaginative metaphor. Let’s not get started on penetrating foreign markets….

Results speak for themselves. In the last decade, countries that have been
more open have achieved double the annual average growth of others. Not trading with China does nothing for Chinas working poor. It will make them worse off.

People favour more choice, not less. Efficiency is a good thing. Countries who trade don’t tend to fight one another….etc…..

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If ($buy_it_from_china)
{

}

else if ($buy_it_somewhere_else)
{

}

else
{
print (“Make it ourselves�)
}

end if

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BluePeter said: Trade is a good thing.

If only it were that simple, BluePeter. Trade is like sex – it can be either good or bad. What makes it good or bad depends both on what you do and whom you do it with.

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I’m not.

Trade is a good thing. Conditions will improve in China because of it.

They already are.

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BluePeter,

You are absolutely right. Every single one of us New Zealanders are Hypocrites! Walk into a shop and buy an item and it has MADE IN CHINA printed all over it. We as New Zealanders have absolutely nothing to be proud of.

As I said, I am absolutely ashamed to admit that I am a New Zealander.

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