Is there a process by which the accused can insist that the rules of sub judice be removed? As I understand it, the media cannot discuss the details of evidence in any trial, regardless of who chooses to release it.

The principle is that juries should not be influenced by media debate either way. Otherwise everybody who felt they could successfully play the victim in the media would go running to the press with their story.

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jh : still in hysteria mode I see :
“The way I see it Keith Press statement down plays “what were very disturbing activitiesâ€?. Firearms charges are a bit naughty, (boys like their guns)… Does Keith not agree with the SG who actually saw the evidence. If not why not?”

Well I don’t suppose Keith’s actually seen the evidence, unless the cops leaked it to him too, in violation of the law… so it’s hard for him to agree or disagree with the solicitor general’s opinion of “very disturbing activities”. Generally people have to be pretty careful in making press statements about matters that are before the courts. Precisely, he sticks to principles in making the point that the firearms charges are sufficient, and terrorism charges would introduce secrecy and lower the hurdle of proof, which are pretty extreme measures to take against Iti and his band of muppets (plus various people who seem to have committed the crime of being in the same room with him at some point).

Alleged terrorists lose specific rights : the right to an open trial, in particular. Bluntly, if special “terrorism” charges had been invoked against the likes of Iti, that would have considerably lowered the hurdles of protection of human rights.

But we’ll have to wait and see how it turns out in court… I am glad that we will have the right to know about the trial.

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There is actually no evidence that any of the accused had fire arms. Only the word of the police, and their integrity has certainly not been above reproach in recent times (in the same way the sea is not above the clouds).

I know the Wellington protesters, and they would not know which end of a gun to point; they certainly wouldn’t possess one. And as for possessing Molotov coktails. Maybe some of you think these are the stuff drunk in Ruatoki tavern, but a Molotov cockail, being made of a volatile compound, is not something that can be “possessed”. It is made just before it needs to be used.

I have some 2-stroke lawnmower petrol in my shed, some beer bottles in my recycing bin and some rags in my kitchen. Does that mean I can be legitimately arrested for possessing Molatov cocktails. After all I could make one in a few minutes.

http://www.epf.org.nz

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Feel the force from the NZ Herald today. Shame on all parties who support the EFB. Democracy deniers.

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Several commenters at Tumeke! have touched on this, on something that Minto’s loose coalition of anti-colonial, anti-globalisation, anti-industry and anti-life protestors seem to have overlooked — or it seems at least that they’d sure like it be overlooked — and it’s this: Despite repeated bleating about ‘hidden trials’ and ‘suppressed evidence’ and ‘secret court hearings’ and the like from these protestors and their Minto and Locke and Indymedia mouthpieces (it’s worth noting that two-thirds of the editors of Indymedia are one-eighth of the ‘Urewera 16′) it’s not the police or the prosecutors who want to keep everything under wraps, it’s the defendants themselves.”
http://pc.blogspot.com/

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alistair Says:

I can’t find any way of reading Keith’s release that makes it condone violence in any way. These people are still facing an array of firearm offences. If you had your way, jh, the “hurdle� would be lowered, i.e. you would like the law to be rewritten so that they could be charged as terrorists… what, pray tell, would that achieve? As Keith has pointed out, there was no threat to national security.
……………..
The way I see it Keith Press statement down plays “what were very disturbing activities”. Firearms charges are a bit naughty, (boys like their guns)… Does Keith not agree with the SG who actually saw the evidence. If not why not?

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PEL

There is some merit in people riding bikes, during my time in Holland the benefits of bike riding were obvious…… A distinct lack of fat Shelia’s!

Perhaps we should give this idea some thought.

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A resource for utility cyclists in New Zealand

http://urbanbicycles.googlepages.com/home

Have a look at (videos and pictures linked from) the web-site to see what ‘utility’ cycling is in cities like Copenhagen where 35% of traffic is bicycles.

Familiarising New Zealanders with utility-style bicycles and technologies and the practices and policies that have enabled the uptake of utility cycling in European Cycletopias is a first step in enabling us to make the change away from our dependence on cars.

The web-site provides links to where these technologies can be obtained in New Zealand ( or overseas) and to initiatives by Local Governments, organisations, companies or individuals that are setting precedents which others can follow.

The aim is to make utility cycling practical , practicable and preferable to the broadest possible demographic range to build the numbers needed to ensure real support from political leaders,

Contrasting cycling in Kyoto, Japan where large numbers of cyclists share the pavements with pedestrians with that in Christchurch where small numbers of cyclists share the roads with large numbers of cars…..

http://utilitycyclism.blogspot.com/

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>>I would have thought you would be sleeping more soundly following the >>reassuring news that there is no terrorism in New Zealand

How do you know? If there isn’t, then the accused will have no problem releasing the evidence collected by the Police.

Why the need to cover-up something that supposedly isn’t happening?

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alistair, The only injury accident I’ve ever had was when my front wheel got caught in a railway track crossing Tamaki Drive at very shallow angle. But since I’ve been driving a gunmetal grey sports car I’ve discovered what it’s like to be invisible to little old ladies even though I use the maxim “wipers on – lights on”.

It’s frightening the number of cyclists who ride at night with no lights in dark clothing. Thank goodness cycle makers have been putting reflectors on the peddles since the 1970′s.

For the benefit of BJ and anybody else who’s education was incomplete, they need to visit
http://www.goodiesillustratedguide.com/
which includes a Trandem Identification Guide

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Jeez jh, never happy are you?

I would have thought you would be sleeping more soundly following the reassuring news that there is no terrorism in New Zealand
(we can all stay perfectly calm…)

I can’t find any way of reading Keith’s release that makes it condone violence in any way. These people are still facing an array of firearm offences. If you had your way, jh, the “hurdle” would be lowered, i.e. you would like the law to be rewritten so that they could be charged as terrorists… what, pray tell, would that achieve? As Keith has pointed out, there was no threat to national security.

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Come on chaps, that’s not a thrice-icle nor a tridem, but a trandem. Ah the Goodies… ah the seventies! (of which decade I wasted far too much in front of TV, before I worked out how much better life could be without that addiction!)

Kevyn, the car driver IS always at fault. OK, the cyclist took a risk in assuming the driver had seen him : in that sense, the fault is shared… Personally, I don’t have accidents on a bicycle because I make no assumptions. In thirty years of urban cycle use I have never had an accident worth reporting. In that time, as a motorist, I’ve had my share of bangs and dings, and knocked one (invisible) cyclist and one (invisible) motorcyclist off their bikes.

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“The Solicitor-General had a clear test to meet. He had to be satisfied that the Police had admissible and reliable evidence strong enough to make a prima facie case, and credible enough to possibly enable a conviction beyond reasonable doubt. Evidently, the hurdle proved too high for the Police to meet,� Mr Locke says.
……..
In fact it was the hurdle that was faulty not (so much) the hurdler (evidence).
Keith seems to be playing down (covering up) the activities of those arrested here.
Being opposed to violence means exposing violence , not covering it up.

“that the police have successfully brought to an end what were very disturbing activities. That the police did so without a single shot being fired, injury or loss of life, is a tremendous reflection on the professionalism and integrity of the New Zealand police.”

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On Close up poll last night over 87% supported the police action in the anti terror raids.

Locke delighted by Crown’s terrorism decision
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR11368.html

Law is the loser on the day
unnecessarily complex, incoherent and as a result almost impossible to apply to the domestic circumstances observed by the police in this case… A number of people could, on one view of it, [have] possibly come close to meeting the criteria under the act.

If the legislation had been framed differently, it is possible that charges under the Terrorism Act may have been able to be brought.

It is to the subjective, the arbitrary, and the whim-based to which New Zealand law under Geoffrey Palmer’s influence has been explicitly directed for some time. Let us hope this case acts as a wake-up call to drafters of future legislation.
http://pc.blogspot.com/

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Thrice-icle? Nope, it’s a tridem. And why haven’t we seen The Goodies on UKTV?

Kevyn

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Close Up Poll 87% (?) approve of the police action.

Keith’s spin can be found here:
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR11368.html

I wonder how many Green Party members agree with Kieth?

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Blair, There is no need for an investigation because the motor driver is always legally at fault. Of course this does mean that the real cause is never determined so real solutions are never forthcoming.

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stuey is right about the pedestrians; or lack of. And not just in Auckland.
A couple of days ago shopping in Raglan I fancied some fish. So I thought “I’ll wall down to the dock since it is a nice day”. No big deal as it is only 1K and along the waterfront.
Now Raglan is supposed to be one of the greener parts of NZ but I didn’t see one other pedestrian, no cyclists either. Quite a lot of tin boxes but no humans. It actually got a little weird after a while.
Did get an excellent selection of fish straight off the boat though.

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Yesterday I was reminded of the vulnerability and transparency of the cyclist accompanied by ambulance and police car as he was lifted replete with helmet into the meat wagon. I returned by ten minutes later on my return journey – no ‘spray can’ road markings, no accident investigation, scene vacated. If two SUV’s had rubbed bumpers and caused ‘grief’ there would have been a full theodolite and laser ‘accident investigation’ on a scale only exceed by a ‘clan lab’ response.

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I’m always very careful around other road and pavement users and always slow down and share with care

When I avoid busy intersections and take to pavement/pedestrian crossings I’m usually stopped, waiting for the lights to change, not speeding onto the pavement.

And I very rarely encounter pedestrians on the pavement anyway. It’s odd, but there are really very few people walking along the streets in Auckland. They mainly seem to park and walk to a shop, not much usage of pavements as transport routes.

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