Comments on: Hockey players, fuel efficiency, the state and market failure http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:41:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: big bro http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-30063 big bro Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:36:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-30063 Sam I agree with most of what you have posted although quite how you can suggest that low wages have anything to do with those on social welfare is somewhat confusing. I am glad you agree with me on the issue of race based policies, I also want the govt out of broadcasting, the market should determine what language our TV is broadcast in, I would wager that this would see the immediate end to Maori language TV which in my opinion would be a good thing, if Maori TV can survive without govt handouts then so be it, the fact is that it would not. If we are ever going to bring this nation together then it must be by consensus, ramming an irrelevant culture down the throats of 85% of the people of NZ will not do that. Sam I agree with most of what you have posted although quite how you can suggest that low wages have anything to do with those on social welfare is somewhat confusing.

I am glad you agree with me on the issue of race based policies, I also want the govt out of broadcasting, the market should determine what language our TV is broadcast in, I would wager that this would see the immediate end to Maori language TV which in my opinion would be a good thing, if Maori TV can survive without govt handouts then so be it, the fact is that it would not.

If we are ever going to bring this nation together then it must be by consensus, ramming an irrelevant culture down the throats of 85% of the people of NZ will not do that.

]]> By: Sam Buchanan http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-30040 Sam Buchanan Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:52:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-30040 "massive savings could be made in the areas of social welfare, DPB, treaty settlements, the funding of a state broadcasters, funding of special interest groups, the arts and any racially based projects." I tend to agree. Social welfare has become an excuse for employers to not pay a living wage - and for a lot of men to evade responsibility for the costs of their children. If we lived in a culture where such individualist and itrresponsible behaviour was properly stigmatised we could largely end state-run social welfare. I also resent paying for race-based projects - particularly the government. Why do we tolerate an authority based on English law and tradition and that insists on speaking a foreign language and refuses to recognise New Zealand's traditional ways of doing things? Why do I have to pay taxes for state-run Pakeha TV, again in a foreign language, that I don't watch anyway? Why do we have to suffer Pakeha Language Week 51 weeks a year? I have no problem with people wanting to keep their traditions and culture, but this should be the responsibility of those communities. The state shouldn't be picking it's favourites to support with my money. “massive savings could be made in the areas of social welfare, DPB, treaty settlements, the funding of a state broadcasters, funding of special interest groups, the arts and any racially based projects.”

I tend to agree. Social welfare has become an excuse for employers to not pay a living wage - and for a lot of men to evade responsibility for the costs of their children. If we lived in a culture where such individualist and itrresponsible behaviour was properly stigmatised we could largely end state-run social welfare.

I also resent paying for race-based projects - particularly the government. Why do we tolerate an authority based on English law and tradition and that insists on speaking a foreign language and refuses to recognise New Zealand’s traditional ways of doing things? Why do I have to pay taxes for state-run Pakeha TV, again in a foreign language, that I don’t watch anyway? Why do we have to suffer Pakeha Language Week 51 weeks a year?

I have no problem with people wanting to keep their traditions and culture, but this should be the responsibility of those communities. The state shouldn’t be picking it’s favourites to support with my money.

]]> By: Mouldwarp http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29972 Mouldwarp Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:51:44 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29972 Of course some people just drive a big car because they pull a boat at the weekends. Of course some people just drive a big car because they pull a boat at the weekends.

]]> By: big bro http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29931 big bro Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:28:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29931 Ruth As I see it the govt (of any persuasion) has a duty to defend us, police us, imprison those of us who break the law (build as many prisons as they need) and take as much money as they need from us to provide for the very few genuine welfare cases (and pensions) and that is about it, the rest should be left to the free market and business to sort out. It should be made illegal for the govt to take more than they need in any given year, massive savings could be made in the areas of social welfare, DPB, treaty settlements, the funding of a state broadcasters, funding of special interest groups, the arts and any racially based projects. We should have the option of providing our own health care, our own education and our own retirement schemes, those who choose to look after themselves should be taxed at a much lower level. You are right about the system being flawed, nearly eight years of rampant socialism and the hard left feminist agenda have proven that, what we need is a good dose of Rogernomics to instill a bit of personal responsibility back into the people of NZ Ruth

As I see it the govt (of any persuasion) has a duty to defend us, police us, imprison those of us who break the law (build as many prisons as they need) and take as much money as they need from us to provide for the very few genuine welfare cases (and pensions) and that is about it, the rest should be left to the free market and business to sort out.

It should be made illegal for the govt to take more than they need in any given year, massive savings could be made in the areas of social welfare, DPB, treaty settlements, the funding of a state broadcasters, funding of special interest groups, the arts and any racially based projects.

We should have the option of providing our own health care, our own education and our own retirement schemes, those who choose to look after themselves should be taxed at a much lower level.

You are right about the system being flawed, nearly eight years of rampant socialism and the hard left feminist agenda have proven that, what we need is a good dose of Rogernomics to instill a bit of personal responsibility back into the people of NZ

]]> By: ruth http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29927 ruth Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:47:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29927 I dunno BB, I know it's fun (and easy) to knock the government and god knows they are woefully inadequate when it comes to taking action to protect our climate, our poorest and our future. BUT, I do not think we can and probably should trust them to organise a bit of what we collectively want. Things like all driving on the left hand side of the road (very handy), building hospitals (tricky to get together with one's neighbours and turn your tax cut into a local emergency department), engaging in international discourse (we might not always like what they say on our behalf but I think it would be pretty bloody hard to negotiate trade deals as individuals), and enforcing environmental standards (once again, they may be failing but good luck doing it better on your own)...I think your ideological anti-statism is flawed. It's not the right way to do everything, but it does have the capacity to set up structures that while we might not like all the individual instances of, we appreciate the overall advantage of acting collectively. I dunno BB, I know it’s fun (and easy) to knock the government and god knows they are woefully inadequate when it comes to taking action to protect our climate, our poorest and our future. BUT, I do not think we can and probably should trust them to organise a bit of what we collectively want. Things like all driving on the left hand side of the road (very handy), building hospitals (tricky to get together with one’s neighbours and turn your tax cut into a local emergency department), engaging in international discourse (we might not always like what they say on our behalf but I think it would be pretty bloody hard to negotiate trade deals as individuals), and enforcing environmental standards (once again, they may be failing but good luck doing it better on your own)…I think your ideological anti-statism is flawed. It’s not the right way to do everything, but it does have the capacity to set up structures that while we might not like all the individual instances of, we appreciate the overall advantage of acting collectively.

]]> By: SleepyTreehugger http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29897 SleepyTreehugger Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:16:10 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29897 big bro. BB has a point. I was cracking up about you guys patting each other on the back and proclaiming democracy has won the day when Labour abandoned the Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill. Just a tad ironic. big bro.

BB has a point. I was cracking up about you guys patting each other on the back and proclaiming democracy has won the day when Labour abandoned the Therapeutic Products and Medicines Bill. Just a tad ironic.

]]> By: big bro http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29895 big bro Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:55:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29895 The trouble with that idea Russ is that we cannot trust the govt to do what we "collectively" want. "We" (82%) of us did not want the anti smacking bill yet YOU pushed it through, 75% of us were against the homosexual law reform bill (for various reasons) and yet YOU pushed it through. We (the voting public) simply cannot trust you. The trouble with that idea Russ is that we cannot trust the govt to do what we “collectively” want.

“We” (82%) of us did not want the anti smacking bill yet YOU pushed it through, 75% of us were against the homosexual law reform bill (for various reasons) and yet YOU pushed it through.

We (the voting public) simply cannot trust you.

]]> By: Kevyn http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29857 Kevyn Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:26:27 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29857 PS. Of course large cars are safer than mid-size cars which in turn are safer than small cars. The same is true for SUVs, with the proviso that the crashworthiness of each size of SUV is only equivalent to the next smaller size car. The agressivity (or risk to other road users) is equivalent to the next LARGER size car. A LOSE/LOSE situation for all road users. But you'll never convince SUV owner of this, according to car company market research SUV owners are rather insecure people. PS. Of course large cars are safer than mid-size cars which in turn are safer than small cars. The same is true for SUVs, with the proviso that the crashworthiness of each size of SUV is only equivalent to the next smaller size car. The agressivity (or risk to other road users) is equivalent to the next LARGER size car. A LOSE/LOSE situation for all road users.

But you’ll never convince SUV owner of this, according to car company market research SUV owners are rather insecure people.

]]> By: Kevyn http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29856 Kevyn Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:14:34 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29856 To follow up on bj's point about the percieved safety of SUv's compared with cars. This is classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. The perception that Suv's are safer than cars is the result of considering just one half of the law of conservation of momentum: that in a collision a large object will push a small object out of the way. The other half of the law says rigid objects will transfer more of their momentum than soft objects. Since SUVs are more rigid than cars this can cancel out the benefit they gain from the first part of the law. A Department of Transportation study analysed 10 million crashes in which 100,000 drivers were killed. Vehicles were classified according to their wheelbase, body type, and whether they were a car or LTV. Compared with cars of the same wheelbase LTVs killed almost twice as many drivers, both their own drivers and drivers of cars they collided with. The LTVs extra few hundred pounds compared with same wheelbase cars not only does not provide any additional safety for LTV drivers but it actually creates more risk for other drivers. Combine this with the absence of proper crumple zones on LTVs and you end up with safety equivalent to a 10 year old car. The rollover problem only showed up in single vehicle crashes. Again LTVs were almost twice as deadly as cars. Not only are LTVs more likely to roll over but they put much more weight on their roof pillars which are simply not engineered stronger than car roof pillars. The ratio of mass to wheelbase is essentially the same as the human BMI. Compared with cars the BMI for SUVs would be declared OBESE by any doctor. To follow up on bj’s point about the percieved safety of SUv’s compared with cars. This is classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. The perception that Suv’s are safer than cars is the result of considering just one half of the law of conservation of momentum: that in a collision a large object will push a small object out of the way. The other half of the law says rigid objects will transfer more of their momentum than soft objects. Since SUVs are more rigid than cars this can cancel out the benefit they gain from the first part of the law.

A Department of Transportation study analysed 10 million crashes in which 100,000 drivers were killed. Vehicles were classified according to their wheelbase, body type, and whether they were a car or LTV. Compared with cars of the same wheelbase LTVs killed almost twice as many drivers, both their own drivers and drivers of cars they collided with. The LTVs extra few hundred pounds compared with same wheelbase cars not only does not provide any additional safety for LTV drivers but it actually creates more risk for other drivers. Combine this with the absence of proper crumple zones on LTVs and you end up with safety equivalent to a 10 year old car.

The rollover problem only showed up in single vehicle crashes. Again LTVs were almost twice as deadly as cars. Not only are LTVs more likely to roll over but they put much more weight on their roof pillars which are simply not engineered stronger than car roof pillars.

The ratio of mass to wheelbase is essentially the same as the human BMI. Compared with cars the BMI for SUVs would be declared OBESE by any doctor.

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29855 bjchip Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:03:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/07/29/hockey-players-fuel-efficiency-the-state-and-market-failure/#comment-29855 PQ has a point... The next dance is going to leave us looking for a partner... and Rodney HAS shown that he's willing to try... well pretty much anything at all ... :-) respectfully BJ PQ has a point…

The next dance is going to leave us looking for a partner… and Rodney HAS shown that he’s willing to try… well pretty much anything at all … :-)

respectfully
BJ

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