i just gave mine away..

and i guess i see not using/wearing as also being a statement…

(i also don’t like the touch/feel of it..i can’t get past the fact i am touching/handling the skin of a dead animal..)

and no b.j..sorry..

but you and b.b. would be in the same animal rights camp..eh..?

both wiping their (animal) body-fats from your chin..

as you concede ‘they could do with bigger cages’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

I understand and, basically, share your feelings about the breeding and killing of animals for meat and leather.

As a convert to vegetarianism (for moral and sutainability reasons) and moving closer to veganism, I choose to use some leather still.

My problem is a clash of two Green ideas:
Do I continue to “use the leather stuff until it wears out”,
when I should be demonstrating “don’t exploit animals” ?

I currently use leather shoes and one handbag, because to get rid of them would make the animals’ deaths more pointless.

respectfully
BJ

“..I have NO qualms about eating dead animals in any significant moral sense..”

ok then..that’s quite clear..

do you also have no qualms about the short brutal lives..?

full of pain/suffering/stress..?

lived by those now dead animals you have ‘no qualms about eating’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

>OK, I live in Australia and I’m reading that wondering how it applies here. Specifically, outback cattle are usually fed bore water which is unpalatable if not actively poisonous to humans. So that’s cool, if somewhat salty.

The main water consumption on producing beef is not the water the cattle drink, wut the water you use to grow the grass or corn they eat. Kiwi cattle eat mostly grass, and I assume Aussie cattle do too. In the US and some latin American countries they eat corn, which means much higher consumption of irrigation water per head of cattlebeast (yes, that’s the technical term). It also means they get sick, because cattle did not evolve to eat corn.

Also, the fact that humans cannot drink the water is not relevant. We cannot drink water as an alternative to eating, because it doesn’t have any calories. Unless its as polluted as many of New Zealand’s lowland rivers, in which case it probably does. The alternative is to use the water to grow crops that are high in protein. So the question we need to ask is, is that water clean enough to irrigate lentils, soybeans or peanuts?

As for the carnivorous bit, I am an omnivore which is pretty much the way nature designed me to be. I have NO qualms about eating dead animals in any significant moral sense, and even though I have issues with the resource consumption involved and further issues with health aspects I regard my efforts to be “as good as it gets” for now. In a few years when things are more settled and I know more Russian I may be able to explain to our Babushka the benefits of tofu. For now I have to take what turns up at table…. and I doubt she will ever eat the tofu.

respectfully

BJ

i am trying to present facts/questions/different points of view..

if you choose to project your self-guilt/defensiveness over your carnivorous behavior onto those questions..so be it..

tell me..do you feel absolutely no qualms as you chew on the flesh of what was once a living/sentient being..?

do you feel nothing..?..no uncertainties..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

and um..why do you not wear leather..?..if you already eat them..?

It was however, one hell of a neat imaginary scenario

Y’all report back to us about question time though. I think lots of interesting stuff is going to happen in the next couple - three weeks.

respectfully
BJ

and it’s not what i ‘want’..

(stop trying to personalise/denigrate my valid concerns..)

these are facts that are staring you in the face..nothing to do with me…

and i note you are taking the (predicted) refusal to discuss option..eh..?

must go..!

questiontime beckons..

back later..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)