Comments on: An open cheque book to Fulton Hogan http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:37:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: stuey http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25221 stuey Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:41:49 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25221 http://wellurban.blogspot.com/ is pretty good although it is only about Wellington town planning http://wellurban.blogspot.com/

is pretty good although it is only about Wellington town planning

]]> By: zANavAShi http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25181 zANavAShi Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:12:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25181 JH, not sure if that was a serious question, but yes I have actually seen a couple of blogs on town planning from a sustainable living and peak-oil point-of-view. Can't lay my hands on the links right now, but I'll flick them your way soon as I do. Cheers, Z JH, not sure if that was a serious question, but yes I have actually seen a couple of blogs on town planning from a sustainable living and peak-oil point-of-view. Can’t lay my hands on the links right now, but I’ll flick them your way soon as I do.

Cheers,
Z

]]> By: jh http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25161 jh Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:16:51 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25161 Is there a town-planning blog? jh Is there a town-planning blog?
jh

]]> By: big bruv http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25158 big bruv Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:28:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25158 Tom Perhaps we could pave these roads with Hemp? Not sure what you mean with your next post, but if you are seriously suggesting that we need to consult with maori every time a new road is planned lest we disturb some mythical creature then I am afraid you have a rather different view of the world than I do. And BTW, has Eredwen not told you that I do not understand big words? Tom

Perhaps we could pave these roads with Hemp?

Not sure what you mean with your next post, but if you are seriously suggesting that we need to consult with maori every time a new road is planned lest we disturb some mythical creature then I am afraid you have a rather different view of the world than I do.

And BTW, has Eredwen not told you that I do not understand big words?

]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25157 kahikatea Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:11:25 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25157 # OnceBitten Says: March 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pm >There arent really that many motorways in the sth island those in chch can be easily avoided by using normal roads. The Dunedin ones aren't so easy to avoid, particularly the Southern Motorway between Burnside and Mosgiel. But then, maybe that's just Karma coming back to haunt Dunedin's south-western suburbs - the place that gave the country Fulton Hogan. # OnceBitten Says:
March 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pm

>There arent really that many motorways in the sth island those in chch can be easily avoided by using normal roads.

The Dunedin ones aren’t so easy to avoid, particularly the Southern Motorway between Burnside and Mosgiel. But then, maybe that’s just Karma coming back to haunt Dunedin’s south-western suburbs - the place that gave the country Fulton Hogan.

]]> By: OnceBitten http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25156 OnceBitten Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:44:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25156 I personally think a fuel tax is a better way to go rather than electronic toll roads like they have in oz, to pay for roading. It also encourages use of more efficient vehicles and hybrids as well as regular tune-ups, but it should be added to the pump price of diesel as it's too easy to disconnect a speedo and bypass the present mileage based system currently on these vehicles. I also notice that on the Wellington-Wairarapa line they are spending the money on new carriages rather than on electricification of the line. I personally think a fuel tax is a better way to go rather than electronic toll roads like they have in oz, to pay for roading. It also encourages use of more efficient vehicles and hybrids as well as regular tune-ups, but it should be added to the pump price of diesel as it’s too easy to disconnect a speedo and bypass the present mileage based system currently on these vehicles. I also notice that on the Wellington-Wairarapa line they are spending the money on new carriages rather than on electricification of the line.

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25155 bjchip Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:40:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25155 I've pointed out earlier, that if you put in a really new road it is also a "route" and things get built along that artery taking advantage of the access to new territory. The route is apt to be more permanent than the physical pavement. Roman roads are still the base mapping for current roads in Europe. Something like Transmission Gully will open up property and such an advantage adds value... it also becomes (should the ocean rise even 3 meters) the only viable path out of the Wellington Region. This is not to be sneezed at. The goat path that is optimistically named SH2 to the Wairarapa is not going to cut it. . What I'd LIKE to see with TG is rail or an electrified express busway on the same route. This would be better than an extra lane for cars. That makes it a more viable overall option. It is however, only one piece of the infrastructure puzzle. respectfully BJ I’ve pointed out earlier, that if you put in a really new road it is also a “route” and things get built along that artery taking advantage of the access to new territory. The route is apt to be more permanent than the physical pavement.

Roman roads are still the base mapping for current roads in Europe.

Something like Transmission Gully will open up property and such an advantage adds value… it also becomes (should the ocean rise even 3 meters) the only viable path out of the Wellington Region. This is not to be sneezed at. The goat path that is optimistically named SH2 to the Wairarapa is not going to cut it. .

What I’d LIKE to see with TG is rail or an electrified express busway on the same route. This would be better than an extra lane for cars.

That makes it a more viable overall option. It is however, only one piece of the infrastructure puzzle.

respectfully
BJ

]]> By: uk_kiwi http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25154 uk_kiwi Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:34:06 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25154 A blank cheque is never a good idea. However it's great that the govt is investing in infrastructure, and this does come just a day after the announcement on the $200m Wellington rail renewal. IMHO all these things are both affordable and worthwhile- that rail money will likely result in a $1400m boost to GDP after all is said and done, not to mention the benefits of a modern commuter train service for the millions of passenger trips each year. Heck at least this govt is not leaving it to the market to build roads- in the words of Ganesh Nana of BERL, we have a 20 year backlog of projects due to the ineffective reliance on the market to develop infrastructure. And the projects are happening! There is no doubt that the roads are better, the unemployment rate is lower, and economic growth is bumped up by this spending. While the oil may run out eventually, this is not an excuse for inaction. It might be 30 years away, how many needless deaths could be prevented by improving the roads in that time. Oh and concrete motorways are good but very noisy and bumpy. The californian ones are awful to drive on! IMHO There also needs to be an incentive to get cars off the roads- perhaps stricter WOF standards and emissions testing, higher fuel taxes (with the proceeds entirely spent on roads and public transport), compulsory 3rd party insurance etc. With several hundred thousand vehicles arriving here each year, no amount of road building is going to relieve that amount of congestion. A blank cheque is never a good idea. However it’s great that the govt is investing in infrastructure, and this does come just a day after the announcement on the $200m Wellington rail renewal. IMHO all these things are both affordable and worthwhile- that rail money will likely result in a $1400m boost to GDP after all is said and done, not to mention the benefits of a modern commuter train service for the millions of passenger trips each year.

Heck at least this govt is not leaving it to the market to build roads- in the words of Ganesh Nana of BERL, we have a 20 year backlog of projects due to the ineffective reliance on the market to develop infrastructure. And the projects are happening! There is no doubt that the roads are better, the unemployment rate is lower, and economic growth is bumped up by this spending.

While the oil may run out eventually, this is not an excuse for inaction. It might be 30 years away, how many needless deaths could be prevented by improving the roads in that time. Oh and concrete motorways are good but very noisy and bumpy. The californian ones are awful to drive on!

IMHO There also needs to be an incentive to get cars off the roads- perhaps stricter WOF standards and emissions testing, higher fuel taxes (with the proceeds entirely spent on roads and public transport), compulsory 3rd party insurance etc. With several hundred thousand vehicles arriving here each year, no amount of road building is going to relieve that amount of congestion.

]]> By: michaelangelo http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25153 michaelangelo Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:24:02 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25153 How about a distance based system. I know in some parts of the world - Aussi, Singapore, USA and Europe all "motor vehicles" (just a bit of clarification for BB in regard to cycles) have a electronic bar code thingy so that they get scanned as they pass certain parts. (like the old toll roads) Different roads have different values so that some shorter trips are more expensive and so on. In this way where public transport is working well - driving is more expensive. Where lacking - less so. User pays - again! This would allow flexibility into the system as new public transport is put into service or roads are up OR downgraded (sorry BB) Fee collection (call it mileage dollars) well I've done my bit I will leave it for someone else to work out pros and cons. How about a distance based system. I know in some parts of the world - Aussi, Singapore, USA and Europe all “motor vehicles” (just a bit of clarification for BB in regard to cycles) have a electronic bar code thingy so that they get scanned as they pass certain parts. (like the old toll roads) Different roads have different values so that some shorter trips are more expensive and so on. In this way where public transport is working well - driving is more expensive. Where lacking - less so.

User pays - again! This would allow flexibility into the system as new public transport is put into service or roads are up OR downgraded (sorry BB)
Fee collection (call it mileage dollars) well I’ve done my bit I will leave it for someone else to work out pros and cons.

]]> By: Tom http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25152 Tom Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:07:59 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2007/03/21/an-open-cheque-book-to-fulton-hogan/#comment-25152 Big bruv: "Roads can be funded by the fuel tax theft, if we do away with all the silly Maori consultation rubbish then we can get more roads for our money." You've kept up your act for so long now, and so consistently, that I'm no longer sure that you're just parodying... which means that I'm getting even greater laughs than usual, only this time not laughing 'with you'. Except for this subtle gem: "You should know that cycles are not allowed on motorways." Cheers ;) Tom However, really: what would be a good CRITERIA for funding transport? I understand you like roads, but can I gently suggest you like roads for their utilitarian value, rather than any intrinsic worth? In which case, if we could identify what characteristics that utility derives from, we could evaluate the value of other forms of transport too. Big bruv:

“Roads can be funded by the fuel tax theft, if we do away with all the silly Maori consultation rubbish then we can get more roads for our money.”

You’ve kept up your act for so long now, and so consistently, that I’m no longer sure that you’re just parodying…

which means that I’m getting even greater laughs than usual, only this time not laughing ‘with you’. Except for this subtle gem:
“You should know that cycles are not allowed on motorways.”

Cheers ;)

Tom

However, really: what would be a good CRITERIA for funding transport? I understand you like roads, but can I gently suggest you like roads for their utilitarian value, rather than any intrinsic worth? In which case, if we could identify what characteristics that utility derives from, we could evaluate the value of other forms of transport too.

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