Drug law reform is a ‘conservative policy framework’ that were ACT, NATS and others less blinkered than even the GREENS on this matter we would see for thirty two years since the MUD Act, New Zealand drug policy has produced the very results that it set out to avoid.

Prohibition was the radical option. Anyone who has any doubt at all of the coorelelation between gang patches and all that the L.A. bling bling to street/rap culture we have imported stands for, and NZ drug policy, needs to broaden their reading.

CConsider this from today’s [UK] Telegraph:

Britain’s drug policy is “not fit for purpose” and is failing to cut
addiction or drug-related crime, an influential study will conclude today.

Current policy is driven by “moral panic” and is ineffective, with huge
amounts of money being wasted on “futile” attempts to get drugs off the
streets.

The system, it says, is “crude, ineffective, riddled with anomalies and
open to political manipulation”, while existing drugs education is often
“inconsistent, irrelevant, disorganised” and “delivered by people without
adequate training”.

Problems are so acute that the Home Office should lose its lead in dealing
with drug treatment and enforcement, according to the panel of academics,
drug workers and a senior police officer.

The RSA Commission report, which will seek to influence Government policy next year, will prove controversial in some of its findings.
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It recommends the introduction of “shooting galleries,” where heroin
addicts can go to take drugs and receive supervision and help.

It also says that only the worst drug offenders be jailed and that drug
misuse should be treated as a social problem rather than a crime.

Among its other recommendations are that the focus of drug education
should switch from secondary schools to primary schools in order to better
stop children falling into substance misuse.

The focus of enforcement and treatment should also shift, away from
illegal drugs – many of which are often “harmless” – and towards alcohol
and tobacco – which are the most damaging drugs of all.

Professor Anthony King of Essex University was commission chairman for the RSA, the Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce.

Recognising that the report would prove controversial, Prof King insisted
that a radical shake up of Britain’s drugs laws is essential. “Current
policy is broke and needs to be fixed,” he said.

“The idea of a drugs-free world, or even of a drugs-free Britain, is
almost certainly a chimera.”

He continued: “The use of illegal drugs is by no means always harmful any
more than alcohol use is always harmful.

“The evidence suggests that a majority of people who use drugs are able to
use them without harming themselves or others.

“They are able, in that sense, to ‘manage’ their drug use… The harmless
use of illegal drugs is thus possible, indeed common.”

Calling for the concept of drugs to be extended to take in alcohol and
tobacco, the report says: “Unlike most other such substances, however,
illegal drugs have been demonised – by politicians, by the media and to
some extent by the general public.”

The report says that “in an ideal world” drug production, importation and
use would be stopped altogether.

“None of these things, however, is possible and at the moment large
amounts of money are wasted in attempting to achieve the impossible,” the
report says. “The law as it stands is not fit for purpose.”

Describing the Misuse of Drugs Act as unwieldy and inflexible, the report
recommends it be scrapped in favour of a wider-ranging Misuse of
Substances Act abandoning the current ABC classification system and
introducing an “index of harms”.
….. ends…..

Where the rules are the same, the shite is the same.

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We need to protect kids from the hypocrisy and bull-shit and SOCIAL INJUSTICE of prohibition/criminalisation particularly of cannabis.

there are too many alienated people in NZ – and this vile law has a lot to answer for in that regard, and gives the gangs a moral reason to be staunchly anti-authority, and accounts for alot of the disrespect amongst kiwi youth (eg look at the gross double standards alongside tobacco and alcohol)

re: the argument about the public of NZ never going for legalisation(decrim) – there is support as stuey points out, but even if a majority says ‘no’ that does not make criminalsation a good, effective, fair or legitimate law.

Labour copped out on its pot law review earlier this decade because it was too weak and cowardly to advocate the arguments it heard at the select committee – Clark had to call an early election in 2002 to avoid completing due process on their review/inquiry into the legal status.

I recall the Maori Council ten years or so ago making a submission on policy to ‘tackle gangs’ (harassment and criminal associations bill). Their starting point was, you guessed it, ‘decriminalisation’ of cannabis.

regards

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“Please keep your language civil. It is not nice to read such personal attack”

vs

“How ironic that the man (Borrows) who wants the law to state how we can beat our children”

Hypocrisy, no?

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Stuey,

BB can provide some very constructive input when he decides to put his mature cap on. But such unwarranted personal attacks and labels he puts on people whom he disagrees with are totally inappropriate and unacceptable.

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hear hear OB. But I don’t expect BB to listen. Using such language is the only way he can get attention, he certainly can’t get it with the quality of his argument.

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Big Bruv,

Please keep your language civil. It is not nice to read such personal attacks such as you said to Toad “Your naivety is breathtaking…. And to Stuey: You are seriously deluded….

Everyone has the right to express an opinion without such “flaming� just because you do not agree with them!

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oh-ho, so BB, which political party has policies that are more detailed than ours?

http://www.greens.org.nz/docs/policy/

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BB says “watch your support dissappear” if the Greens support cannabis law reform.

well actually BB, since only 5% of people voted green, and lets say a third of NZers support legalisation, that would mean that rather than seeing our vote share drop, it should actually rise if people’s voting was decided on the single issue of cannabis law reform.

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Stuey

Fair enough….make it a BIG part of the next election campaign then…hell, it would be nice to see at least one policy in detail.

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I appear to have overstated my case somewhat. Sorry. It all depends on how the researchers frame the question of course, but polls clearly DO show a majority favour law reform, it is just that they balk at the words “decriminalisation” and “legalisation”.

A pre-election poll in the Sunday Star-Times on September 4th, 2005 showed 37% support for “decriminalisation” of cannabis, and 55% opposition. Among the new generation of Kiwis – voters aged under 30 – support was at 45%.

A UMR Insight poll of 750 people aged over 18 published in The Dominion in August 2000 found sixty per cent of New Zealanders favour law reform. 41 per cent want to stop criminalising cannabis users, and an additional 19 per cent want cannabis legalised.

A One News/Colmar Brunton poll in April 2000 also found support for decriminalising cannabis had grown since their last poll. Of those surveyed 55% approved law changes, while 40% were opposed.

A TV3/CM Research poll in 1996 found that 88% favoured introducing instant fines for small-scale cannabis use, 65% favoured “decriminalisation” and 35% supported “legalisation”.

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Stuey

What poll was that?..one run by the Greens?

You are seriously deluded if you think that NZ will ever legalise drugs.

Here is an idea Stuey, make it the corner stone of the next election for the Greens, last time out you gave nothing but bland and false answers as to what your policy would be on drug use…make it one of your major electioneering platforms in 2008 and watch your support disappear.

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hey listen everyone..!

let’s bury this myth once and for all..

big bruv is not a hummer-driving/carbon-emmitting business-behemoth..

he is a skinny/pimply 19 year old first year commerce student wannabe..(at unitech..)

and he drives an old/early diahatsu charade..

and he wears white trainers..or boat shoes..

and is flirting with the idea of becoming an ‘emo’..

but dosen’t want to have to ‘lose’ his beloved boat shoes..

and about the only emmitting he does..

is flatulence from having eaten just too many tins of baked beans..

(and he is thinking about moving back home..cos’ he’s finding managing in his first flat a’little difficult’…

and mum would make him cut sandwiches to take to unitech..eh..?

in his diahatsu..(it’s colour that pale-green ‘aunty’ shade..)

(and he’s really really hoping to lose his virginity..before he turns twenty..)

so..just fix those images in your mind..

and next time he comes around here..spouting his drivel…

just laugh him out of the room..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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hey hey BB, the public in NZ will accept the legalisation of cannabis … once all the old fuddy duddys have died off and the younger generation (which support legalisation 3 to 1) come through.

last opinion poll I saw had a majority of NZ public in favour of decriminalisation and a healthy third of the populatiion in favour of legalisation. Sorry mate, but people with your views are not the majority, you need to accept the fact that your views are not mainstream!

ask anyone with any knowledge of the justice system, there is a huge backlog in the courts purely because of drug cases. At some point the unthinkable will have to be accepted.

If stoners ever got their act together and reported themselves on mass, the justice system would fall over.

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Zan

“Cor blimey Big Bruv! How on earth do you find the time to earn all that money to fuel up the hummer when you spend so much of your working day skiving off here provoking the nice greenie peoples?”

It’s called time management, of course I did not learn that at University but i did read all about it in a book.

You would be surprised what I can achieve in a day….actaully you would more than likely be shocked at the amount of carbon I burn but then I don’t care about that.

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Toad

You find that language agressive?..dear me, do the greens have plans to control the way we speak as well?

I laughed when I read the bit about freeing up the police, if you think the the public in NZ will ever accept the legalisation of drugs then you must be smoking some serious weed yourself.

As I said in another thread I cannot work out how a party that claims to be protecting children wants to legalise harmful drugs, this only heightens my suspicions about the real intentions of Comrade Bradford’s bill.

Why are you so concerned about the rights of criminals?, these low life scum do not respect your rights or the rights of your kids when they sell them drugs, as far as I am concerned gang members forfeit any rights they may have had when they join a gang.

We can smash the gangs and the gang culture, it has been done overseas and it could be done here, all we need are politicians who are brave enough to start the ball rolling, by making excuses for them you are only getting in the way of those of us who want to fix the problem.

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Big Bruv said: “Do you really expect me to take anything you say seriously when you begin with “Id Start by decriminalising drugsâ€?

I think legalising (not just decriminalising) marijuana would help.
If marijuana were sold by legal businesses that were audited (not just financially, but also audited to make sure they weren’t spiking the product, and to make sure they weren’t selling to children), the criminal gangs would probably lose most of the marijuana market to the legal businesses (because the gangs are well adapted to doing businesses in illegal markets, and poorly adapted to legal ones). This would cut off the single largest source of income to criminal gangs, and remove the opportunity to encourage marijuana buyers to buy harder drugs.

It’s not the full answer to the gang problem, but it would help.

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Gang members themselves have talked about their patch as an area or place and the territorial aspect to gangs and their confrontations with each other. Such could develop in South Auckland on American precedent.

Also this is not exactly just about 1970′s 1980′s management or urban drift by Maori and the PEP for pre urban trust era gangs. It’s now about long term organised crime across generations.

Where a gang has sufficient criminal involvement that it’s patch as a symbol of organised crime, it should be banned. If they dont like that they can clean up their act and or ditch the criminal subculture within from their gang.

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Cor blimey Big Bruv! How on earth do you find the time to earn all that money to fuel up the hummer when you spend so much of your working day skiving off here provoking the nice greenie peoples?

Seriously tho, Toad has some very valid points to make. The thing that scares the bejesus out of me over the last few decades is to see our homegrown NZ gangs start to organise themselves in a business sense in ways that are starting to rival the Triad gangs who now exist in our country.

If you want to cut the balls off the beast then the most effective way to do that is to target their source of income – some of which is from theft crimes, but the bulk of which is from the drug trade. And believe me BB, as an ex-drug-addict myself I could tell you a few stories about that!

People are going to use drugs (or make moonshine during a prohibition) whether it is legal for them to do so or not and in my rather vast personal experience of this issue the fact it is illegal or socially unacceptable makes such things even more appealing to the typically rebellious youth.

Even tho I have been drug-free for a decade myself, am anti-drug-use and believe that drug dealers are the scum of the earth, it still my firm opinion that cannabis should be legalised to grow for personal use even if only because it will strip the bulk of income from all gangs in this country.

It is one of my worst fears that this country should start to become a cesspool of organised crime and I think the USA system of dealing with such things has well and truly proved itself to be an unsuccessful approach.

As my old pal Albert said, “The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.”

This is not be being “weak on crime” or anti-american – this is me just stating a well-researched fact Bro.

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BB: The Gang situation in NZ is nothing like the Iraq war, to suggest otherwise is just silly.

I didn’t say it was.

BB: The Police in NZ have never had the resources to attack the gangs, what we need is a law very similar to RICCO that was used in New York to smash the Mafia.

Aside from the aggressive language (attack the gangs … smash the Mafia), I actually agree that the Police have been under-resourced to deal with gang criminal activity. But what they need is more numbers, funding and physical resources, not draconian laws that breach the fundamental human rights of freedom of expression and association. I’m all for tougher policing of gang crime – just think how many police officers could be freed up to do this if they weren’t wasting their time running prosecutions for possession of a couple of bullets of cannabis.

BB: I do find your comments about Shipton and co to be disturbing, It sounds like you have a hatred of the NZ police and will use these two men as an excuse to attack them at any time.

Not at all. I suspect the vast majority of police officers find Shipton’s & Schollum’s behavior as despicable as I do. I’m coming from the position that all power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Giving “sweeping powers” to the Police that infringe on freedom of expression and freedom of association only makes it easier police corruption to become endemic.

BB: Do you seriously think you can “encourage� gang members into a more wholesome way of living?

As Sam said above, Muldoon did a reasonable job at this in the early 1980s. When the work schemes were canned by the Labour government later in the 1980s, gang members went increasingly back to crime.

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Toad

One more thing….Do you seriously think you can “encourage” gang members into a more wholesome way of living?

I would pay to watch that

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