kahikatea

You were lucky that you were born during that time, I stated my working life when Muldoon was still PM, I can tell you my hatred of socialism came from that man and he was supposedly a Tory…..work that one out!

The 80′s was a funny time politically, you had Labour (the first Lange govt is still the best I have ever seen) who were in reality almost right wing extremist and a silly old Muldoon who thought he could get rid of inflation by outlawing it.

I know that Douglas (and Richardson) are despised by may from the hard left but the reality is that without these two people our country would not be in the healthy state it is now, the current corrupt lot like to take all the credit and blame anything bad on the Nat’s (as witness today when Labour tried to cast the blame for the appalling child health and welfare stats on the last National govt) but the facts are that Douglas and Richardson took the tough choices that saved this nation.

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big bruv Says:
February 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pm

>This is a hard left govt, of that there is no doubt, if you consider this corrupt lot to be right wing then I shudder at what you would have them do if they moved further to the left….66% top tax bracket?

Okay, in -some ways the Labour party do seem a bit collectivist. for example, they expect the whole country to pay for the carbon credit costs incurred by the dairy farming industry, and won’t let the forestry industry have any money from the carbon credits it earns.

But in economic terms they’re well to the right of the government this country had when I was born. Muldoon set a top tax rate of over 60%, set tariffs on so many imported goods that we had tariffs to protect industries we didn’t even have, used taxpayers’ money to subsidise our main export industries, built factories we didn’t need just to create jobs, tried to stop inflation by passing a law against it, and gave money to the Mongrel Mob to run subsidised work schemes.

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Regarding the argument between BB and Luke, I would love to do what BB suggests and shaft labour, but I would reluctantly have to agree with Luke and say it is not ethical, PROVIDED Labour have stuck to their side of the agreement. We could see this as an opportunity to get them to stick to all their coalition promises, and fast, or we really will put the boot in.

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Stuey

Don’t tell anybody….I am not married!….I live in sin.
Hope that is OK with you.

To be honest I don’t give a rats arse if you believe me or not, I am genuine when I say that I think the Greens would be better off to force an election.

Just chill out Stuey, my opening line was an attempt at humour, it obviously passed over you.

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bb and pel,

Thanks for your votes of confidence in the Green Party.

As has been mentioned previously, the Greens are not planning to “disappear from the NZ political landscape”!

Among our membership there are some politically very astute people.
They will do their own assessment of the political situation and keep us informed.

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It is interesting to read the three Parties’ co-operation agreements at the same time and compare and contrast them. Thanks for linking to them.

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er, BB, you are saying that Labour are hard left because of their personal tax rates? But, as far I am aware, Labour have not increased the personal tax rate since they have been in power, it is the same as it was under the last National govt, and therefore under your reasoning the last National govt was hard left as well?

er, and where did eredwen “doubt your motives”? as far as I can tell she only questioned whether you were the best person to give the Greens advice. Maybe that was a Freudian slip on your behalf? Maybe you are not really a former Green voter who owns a hummer and has a wife who is a WINZ case worker, maybe you are a R-W political activist seeking to sow seeds of discord, disrupt discussions and offer poor advice? (Hence why you have a guilty misreading of eredwen’s words?)

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Hand clap for Big Bruv. Spot on.

Greens, stop being so nice! Twist the damn knife already and keep our environment beautiful…

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Eredwen

I am shocked that you doubt my motives.

As you well know I am not at all convinced about climate change being man made but leaving that aside I do agree that the Greens are the only ones who genuinely want to do something about it.
Where we will always differ is that I do not believe taxing the hell out of everything is the way to go and you well know I am deeply suspicious of the hidden hard left agenda.

Look I must be completely honest, I would sleep with the Devil (or Exxon) if it meant that this corrupt govt got the flick, in a perfect world the Greens would do a deal with the Nat’s on environmental issues that did not involve raising taxes and leave the socialist crap to the Labour party.

However as a previous Green party voter I am genuine when i say that I do not want the Greens to disappear from the NZ political landscape as I believe you are the only ones who will keep any party honest when it comes to the environmental and animal welfare issues I care about.

IMHO (and remember it is only MY opinion) the Labour party will kiss your backside for the next 18 months while stealing all your policy and center left voters, you (and dare I say it) the NZ environment cannot afford that, we both know that a parliament without the Greens would mean a swift end to any notion of sustainability or climate change policy.

To let this happen would be political suicide, you cannot trust the voters to do the tight thing by you, have a look at the last election, the buggers voted for Helen simply because she told them she was going to give them interest free student loans and extra benefits (the working for families package) if the Greens lose their point of difference (and they will) they run the very real risk of being annihilated at the next election.

The Greens are polling well right now, now is the time you should cash in on that support before Labour steal it all from you……any anyway, if you do that it will save Russ the embarrassment of being photographed in my Hummer.

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Russel

NOOOOOO..the stakes are perfect just as they are thanks.

P.S Make sure you smile when I take the pic, or you could just take my sage advice and kick the Labour party to the curb and romp in now.

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Big Bruv said:

“How about we have a bet, … if the Greens wait until the next scheduled election and you increase your representation in the house I will sell the Hummer and purchase a push bike that I will ride for a year. If however you end up with less representation or no increase then I want a picture of you driving the Hummer…..do we have a deal? ”

You have a deal but maybe we should up the stakes. If we wait till the next scheduled election and increase our representation you will get the hummer crushed – one less hummer has gotta be a good thing!

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Peter…

I never said they were neutral. They are definitely closer to labour when you consider both parties goals. (If we leave out Labour’s oxymoronic sustainable development) Looking at how they intend to implement these goals however, and they might faller to National. But that is my interpretation.

BB

He’s not going to take the bet. Really! Could I request however as a cyclist that you do a couple of trips on a cycle on a busy road. I have found after taking up cycling that I have much more respect for the plight of the cyclist when on the odd occasion I actually am behind the wheel. If you are intend on driving a massive tank like vehicle it would be good if you gave cyclists heaps of room. Cause I have encountered heaps of drivers who do not do this.

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I agree with Luke!

bb,
It is intersting to read the “advice” of those who want to keep their money as the centre of things, but have (correctly) observed that the only Party in our Parliament with a real knowledge of and commitment to helping to alleviate “climate change/global warming/global dimming” and their consequences is the Greens.

Some of the current Greens have been working on this and related topics (such as the electoral reform that brought in MMP) for forty years now, and have issued warnings that, until very recently, have been ignored by most.

Are you sure you are the appropriate one to be “advising” these people?

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Luke

Bugger that, I enjoy the Hummer and I do not drive a lot when the roads are clogged.

I can think of a million things that I would rather do than ride a bike but I will indeed do so if Russell takes the bet.

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>>I think I would cry.

Well, they’re not as neutral as you made out, are they.

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Greens. Swing far-right wing. I think I would cry.

big bruv.

Why wait to purchase the push bike? You can find extremely cheap pre loved ones and repair for probably less than a tank of gas for your “Hummer”. Biking is fun, healthy and in many cases quicker than driving? Especially when you do it in a big, critically mass, sized group.

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Phil U and Luke

Come on guys, the days of Labour and their supporters telling bare faced lies and getting away with it are over.

This is a hard left govt, of that there is no doubt, if you consider this corrupt lot to be right wing then I shudder at what you would have them do if they moved further to the left….66% top tax bracket?

And yes Phil, I was/am a huge fan of Douglas and for that matter Richardson.

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Luke,

You’re trying to argue that the Greens could easily swing far-right? That I’d like to see. BTW: Labour I’d regard as centreists, with strong left leanings. I’d position ACT and National on the right, obviously.

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Russel

Be it on your head then, if you are happy to be Labours lap dog then enjoy it while it lasts.

How about we have a bet, I come to Wellington as often as I can, it is after all my home town, if the Greens wait until the next scheduled election and you increase your representation in the house I will sell the Hummer and purchase a push bike that I will ride for a year.

If however you end up with less representation or no increase then I want a picture of you driving the Hummer…..do we have a deal?

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I think a new election is rather unlikely! In terms of what we’ve got so far out of the Cooperation Agreement, we certainly haven’t got 5% of the budget – a few million dollars for Buy Kiwi Made, energy efficiency and a few other bits and bobs out of a $52 billion budget is rather less than 5%. If we were to use the London Greens agreement with Ken Livingstone as a benchmark (1.2% of budget expenditure) then that would be $624 million for sustainability. Of course Red Ken does actually seem to believe in sustainability wheras this govt has spent 7 years increasing our greenhouse emissions. But grist for the mill all the same.

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