by Russel Norman
Helen Clark has just given a speech all about sustainability and Philip Field has gone doggo so that the NZ First/United Future/Labour government needs the Greens to at least abstain to get its budget through.
As background it should be noted that both the agreement between Labour and Winston First and Labour and Peter Dunne included a special provision to shaft the carbon charge – the best way to reduce carbon emissions by putting a price on greenhouse emissions and internalising the cost.
After the election we negotiated a co-operation agreement which says that we won’t vote against their budgets (ie we will abstain or vote for) which would mean that their budgets pass. In return we are supposed to get a bunch of sustainability measures.
Short summary of the Co-operation Agreement
The Green Party agrees to provide stability to a Labour/Progressive coalition government by co-operating on agreed policy and budget initiatives and not opposing confidence or supply for the term of this Parliament. The Green Party is committed to ecological sustainability, a self-reliant economy, a fairer society and a peaceful world. The relationship between the Green Party and the government will be based on good faith and no surprises.
The government and the Green Party have agreed that the Green Party spokesperson will be fully involved in the detailed development and implementation of policy proposals of
- An enhanced energy efficiency programme including promotion of a solar energy programme
- A Buy Kiwi Made programme.
Green Party involvement in and support for
- Environmental education
- Initiatives to improve nutrition
- Community and voluntary sector
There is a range of further aspects of the agreement and the details of the programmes above in the full co-operation agreement
Published in Environment & Resource Management | Parliament by Russel Norman on Wed, February 14th, 2007
Tags: environment
More posts by Russel Norman | more about Russel Norman
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
whew..!..
sorry..!..i tried..
eyes glazed over about one third through…
mores to the point..
how assiduous have labour been at keeping to their side of that post-election agreement..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Russel
This is a classic example of what is wrong with MMP, you now have a party (the Greens) that have more say in how the country is going to be run than a 5% support base should allow.
Shame on the Greens for propping up this corrupt govt and shame on ANY political party for abstaining in the house, you are there to do a job, a job that I pay you well for…please do it.
Here is a tip from one who does support the greens when it comes to animal rights issues and does not want the Green party to disappear from the NZ political scene…DO NOT PUSH THE CARBON CHARGE ISSUE, this is a sure vote loser and will be the end of the Greens.
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I watched some of the leaders’ speeches in Parliament yesterday. It was encouraging to see the emphasis and obvious interest in sustainability, including the mentions in Helen Clark’s speech. What that translates to in practice – may be another matter.
Winston Peters seemed to be in fine form. I think that the House was almost full for the duration of his speech. I was disappointed by Jeanette however. I felt that her speech did not come across (to me) as strong or passionate or charismatic. I also noticed an exodus of MPs from the chamber when she started speaking. Labour’s benches seemed to almost clear out completely. It was nice however to see that Clark and Hodgson remained and listened – though I got the feeling that Helen didn’t seem too friendly to the Green message. Makes me think that the Labour party doesn’t actually care very much about sustainability.
I’d like to see the Greens do well. Not sure what to suggest!
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Prim
What they should do (and this would mean you could get Russel in the house which is a far better place for a co leader) is to withdraw support for this corrupt govt and force an election.
There is no time like now for the Greens, Climate change has become the hot topic (wrongly in my opinion) and you can be sure that the only reason that Labour and the Nat’s are talking about it is because they can see votes in it.
The Greens still have the position of strength when it comes to environmental issue’s but you cannot afford to take that for granted, Labour and the Nat’s are going to move into that territory in a big way over the next 18 months, if the Greens are serious about surviving (and an Election now would IMHO increase their numbers in the house) then they need to strike while the iron is hot.
You (the Greens) have been left high and dry by Labour twice now, quite why you choose to support them is confusing, many here stress to me that there is not a hidden hard left agenda (that is yet to be proven) so why not go to the country now.
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you have some valid points b b..
(esp as far as timing is concerned..as in ‘cutting them off at the pass’..)
however..history to date tells/shows us the greens..like clark..are incrementalist (in nature) politicians.
.not radical/revolutionary politicians..
so..to expect/ask them to make such a call/bring down the government is too big a call..
also..the risk of electoral backlash at the greens for ‘forcing the nations’ hand’ would be too high to countenance..
i see the time/day coming when the greens will have to pull off their ‘nice-masks’ and stare-down both major parties..
but i don’t think they are quite there yet..
and…but..!..(and it’s a big but..!..)
if they get further into bed..as they must..with labour for the rest of this term..
and don’t come up with the goods..
(and not just ‘wrapping’ a few more hotwater cylinders)..between now and the next election..
this (sudden) increase in power/influence will be seen to be a curse..not a blessing..
cos’ you/the greens are now on centre-stage…
i hope you are ready/up for it..
and can/will deliver..
go well…!
phil(whoar.co.z)
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Forcing an election by reneging on a deal is not something that is ethical or if you want to bring it in to it a move that will make any party popular. I prefer an party that sticks to their principles and keeps their word as much as can be managed given the strategic environment. Climate Change will not become an non-issue overnight. Especially if the two major parties are competing over who can appear the most green. Yes the major parties are going to try and move into environmental and sustainability issues. Until they address issues, like the so far unbroken tie between energy use and economic growth, they will have no credible solution to the issues they propose.
Okay, there has to be a balance between influence and support in the constituency. Don’t know the figures but would be suprised if the Greens were getting more than 1% of the budget spent on their co-operation agreement initiatives let alone 5%.
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Luke
By forcing an election the Greens can come out of this smelling like roses, there is nothing at all to worry about on the ethical front as the Labour party has dumped on the greens from a great height twice now.
This next election will be fought over Climate change, the underclass and tax cuts, while I do not agree with the green parties policy on any of those topics they at least have a strong and robust position, in short it is a position that they can argue from with great strength.
The Greens need an injection of new blood much in the same way that the Labour party is making changes, you have (with the deepest of respect Russell) a lame duck co leader who needs to be in the house to be effective.
Jeanette has made much of the behaviour in the house and for this I applaud her, she can make a strong statement to the people of NZ by saying that while they are interested in being in government with the Labour party they need to distance themselves from the current crop of corrupt Labour people, we all know that the end is near for NZ first (thank goodness for that) and Peter Dunne, if we had an election ow the Greens would be first cab off the rank when Labour comes calling.
I cannot stress this enough, by waiting another 18 months the Greens run a real risk of being wiped out at the next election, RIGHT NOW they have the support, RIGHT NOW is when they should take that support
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I don’t know about you but when I give my word to do something I intend on keeping it. The misconception that the Green Party doesn’t have the core support to make the 5% cut has been laid bare at the last 3 elections. There will still be a Green Party after the 2008 elections. Whether the Party consider signing anything with Labour ever again in the future is unknown.
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Luke
The Greens have achieved that core support because until now they were the only party pushing the climate change and sustainability buttons, the fact that they only just achieved 5% says a lot about what kiwi’s think about those topics.
You cannot stick you head in the sand and say that things will stay the same at the next election, make no mistake the greens will lose a large amount of that vote to the main parties simply because until now those with environmental concerns did not have an option anybody else to vote for when it came to election time.
If you take away environmental issues from the green party they cease to be a viable option, while some might support the social issues the greens stand for it is not enough to get them elected, Labour are seen as the party for social issues the greens are seen as the defenders of the environment.
Sure stick to your word if you must but I warn you that you are putting at risk the future of your party.
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I like a clean environment, but I don’t like socialism/communism.
I don’t have much option.
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Peter
Thats pretty much the way I feel about the greens as well.
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I dissagree. I think that there is a core of Green Party Support that subscribe to sustainability, equality, peace and democracy. The Green Party is in no way socialist or communist. Despite what labels might be attached. Look at the policies. You will find market based solutions. Sure they are more to the left than Labour. But Labour have never really retreated from their jump to the far right in the 1980’s.
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Luke
You are joking I assume, the only thing further to the left of this Labour govt is indeed communism.
Klarke has distanced herself from the fantastic reforms of the 80’s, the same reforms that saved this country from bankruptcy.
The only thing that the Lange govt did wrong was lose their nerve, had they pushed ahead with Douglas’s visionary policies then we would be in a far better position than we are now.
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Well this of course depends on how you define Left and Right. From my view point the current Government sits more to the right of centre than the left of centre. To me there is a vast expanse of ground to the left occupied solely by the green party. You of course might/obviously see things differently. We are all trapped by the environment we are in and everyone has preconceptions and is shadowed by there past experiences.
ps Does spelling someones name wrong demean them or you??
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Agee with both Peter and Bi Bruv.
Green good, red not so good.
As BJ said in an earlier post, extreme socialism is not good nor is extreme capitalism.
Have a concern that the current Labour party sees the solution in taxing everything that farts.
Would like to see a more reasonable solution in environmental issues rather then taxing it. Sooner or later the people you are taxing will not have the money to pay the taxes. What then environmental tax laws. Wasted.
Carbon neutral means that if I save a kilo of it, can I then expand it somewhere else (or sell it to sombody) and thus have no effect at all in the environment?
Should the initiatives not be called carbon emission reduction?
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“..You are joking I assume, the only thing further to the left of this Labour govt is indeed communism..”
get a grip..!..b b..
breath through your nose ..or something..
this is a rightwing labour govt..
luke correctly notes their moves back from their radical swing to the right have been incrementalist at best..
and their ignoring of the plights of the underclass..if nothing else..prove that..
and you are a douglas/far-right groupie..eh b b..?
so i guess to you..anything to your left must have taints of ‘communism’..eh..?
sheesh..!
(that statment is up their with ol’ fletch over at farrars’..(seriously) claiming the rain that fell on the civil union of homosexual govt minister carter was ‘a message from god..’..showing his displeasure..
feckin’ barking..eh…?
he’s another one of yours..eh b b..?
careful of the company you keep..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I think a new election is rather unlikely! In terms of what we’ve got so far out of the Cooperation Agreement, we certainly haven’t got 5% of the budget – a few million dollars for Buy Kiwi Made, energy efficiency and a few other bits and bobs out of a $52 billion budget is rather less than 5%. If we were to use the London Greens agreement with Ken Livingstone as a benchmark (1.2% of budget expenditure) then that would be $624 million for sustainability. Of course Red Ken does actually seem to believe in sustainability wheras this govt has spent 7 years increasing our greenhouse emissions. But grist for the mill all the same.
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Russel
Be it on your head then, if you are happy to be Labours lap dog then enjoy it while it lasts.
How about we have a bet, I come to Wellington as often as I can, it is after all my home town, if the Greens wait until the next scheduled election and you increase your representation in the house I will sell the Hummer and purchase a push bike that I will ride for a year.
If however you end up with less representation or no increase then I want a picture of you driving the Hummer…..do we have a deal?
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Luke,
You’re trying to argue that the Greens could easily swing far-right? That I’d like to see. BTW: Labour I’d regard as centreists, with strong left leanings. I’d position ACT and National on the right, obviously.
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Phil U and Luke
Come on guys, the days of Labour and their supporters telling bare faced lies and getting away with it are over.
This is a hard left govt, of that there is no doubt, if you consider this corrupt lot to be right wing then I shudder at what you would have them do if they moved further to the left….66% top tax bracket?
And yes Phil, I was/am a huge fan of Douglas and for that matter Richardson.
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Greens. Swing far-right wing. I think I would cry.
big bruv.
Why wait to purchase the push bike? You can find extremely cheap pre loved ones and repair for probably less than a tank of gas for your “Hummer”. Biking is fun, healthy and in many cases quicker than driving? Especially when you do it in a big, critically mass, sized group.
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>>I think I would cry.
Well, they’re not as neutral as you made out, are they.
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Luke
Bugger that, I enjoy the Hummer and I do not drive a lot when the roads are clogged.
I can think of a million things that I would rather do than ride a bike but I will indeed do so if Russell takes the bet.
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I agree with Luke!
bb,
It is intersting to read the “advice” of those who want to keep their money as the centre of things, but have (correctly) observed that the only Party in our Parliament with a real knowledge of and commitment to helping to alleviate “climate change/global warming/global dimming” and their consequences is the Greens.
Some of the current Greens have been working on this and related topics (such as the electoral reform that brought in MMP) for forty years now, and have issued warnings that, until very recently, have been ignored by most.
Are you sure you are the appropriate one to be “advising” these people?
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Peter…
I never said they were neutral. They are definitely closer to labour when you consider both parties goals. (If we leave out Labour’s oxymoronic sustainable development) Looking at how they intend to implement these goals however, and they might faller to National. But that is my interpretation.
BB
He’s not going to take the bet. Really! Could I request however as a cyclist that you do a couple of trips on a cycle on a busy road. I have found after taking up cycling that I have much more respect for the plight of the cyclist when on the odd occasion I actually am behind the wheel. If you are intend on driving a massive tank like vehicle it would be good if you gave cyclists heaps of room. Cause I have encountered heaps of drivers who do not do this.
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Big Bruv said:
“How about we have a bet, … if the Greens wait until the next scheduled election and you increase your representation in the house I will sell the Hummer and purchase a push bike that I will ride for a year. If however you end up with less representation or no increase then I want a picture of you driving the Hummer…..do we have a deal? ”
You have a deal but maybe we should up the stakes. If we wait till the next scheduled election and increase our representation you will get the hummer crushed – one less hummer has gotta be a good thing!
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Russel
NOOOOOO..the stakes are perfect just as they are thanks.
P.S Make sure you smile when I take the pic, or you could just take my sage advice and kick the Labour party to the curb and romp in now.
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Eredwen
I am shocked that you doubt my motives.
As you well know I am not at all convinced about climate change being man made but leaving that aside I do agree that the Greens are the only ones who genuinely want to do something about it.
Where we will always differ is that I do not believe taxing the hell out of everything is the way to go and you well know I am deeply suspicious of the hidden hard left agenda.
Look I must be completely honest, I would sleep with the Devil (or Exxon) if it meant that this corrupt govt got the flick, in a perfect world the Greens would do a deal with the Nat’s on environmental issues that did not involve raising taxes and leave the socialist crap to the Labour party.
However as a previous Green party voter I am genuine when i say that I do not want the Greens to disappear from the NZ political landscape as I believe you are the only ones who will keep any party honest when it comes to the environmental and animal welfare issues I care about.
IMHO (and remember it is only MY opinion) the Labour party will kiss your backside for the next 18 months while stealing all your policy and center left voters, you (and dare I say it) the NZ environment cannot afford that, we both know that a parliament without the Greens would mean a swift end to any notion of sustainability or climate change policy.
To let this happen would be political suicide, you cannot trust the voters to do the tight thing by you, have a look at the last election, the buggers voted for Helen simply because she told them she was going to give them interest free student loans and extra benefits (the working for families package) if the Greens lose their point of difference (and they will) they run the very real risk of being annihilated at the next election.
The Greens are polling well right now, now is the time you should cash in on that support before Labour steal it all from you……any anyway, if you do that it will save Russ the embarrassment of being photographed in my Hummer.
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Hand clap for Big Bruv. Spot on.
Greens, stop being so nice! Twist the damn knife already and keep our environment beautiful…
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er, BB, you are saying that Labour are hard left because of their personal tax rates? But, as far I am aware, Labour have not increased the personal tax rate since they have been in power, it is the same as it was under the last National govt, and therefore under your reasoning the last National govt was hard left as well?
er, and where did eredwen “doubt your motives”? as far as I can tell she only questioned whether you were the best person to give the Greens advice. Maybe that was a Freudian slip on your behalf? Maybe you are not really a former Green voter who owns a hummer and has a wife who is a WINZ case worker, maybe you are a R-W political activist seeking to sow seeds of discord, disrupt discussions and offer poor advice? (Hence why you have a guilty misreading of eredwen’s words?)
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It is interesting to read the three Parties’ co-operation agreements at the same time and compare and contrast them. Thanks for linking to them.
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bb and pel,
Thanks for your votes of confidence in the Green Party.
As has been mentioned previously, the Greens are not planning to “disappear from the NZ political landscape”!
Among our membership there are some politically very astute people.
They will do their own assessment of the political situation and keep us informed.
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Stuey
Don’t tell anybody….I am not married!….I live in sin.
Hope that is OK with you.
To be honest I don’t give a rats arse if you believe me or not, I am genuine when I say that I think the Greens would be better off to force an election.
Just chill out Stuey, my opening line was an attempt at humour, it obviously passed over you.
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Regarding the argument between BB and Luke, I would love to do what BB suggests and shaft labour, but I would reluctantly have to agree with Luke and say it is not ethical, PROVIDED Labour have stuck to their side of the agreement. We could see this as an opportunity to get them to stick to all their coalition promises, and fast, or we really will put the boot in.
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big bruv Says:
February 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
>This is a hard left govt, of that there is no doubt, if you consider this corrupt lot to be right wing then I shudder at what you would have them do if they moved further to the left….66% top tax bracket?
Okay, in -some ways the Labour party do seem a bit collectivist. for example, they expect the whole country to pay for the carbon credit costs incurred by the dairy farming industry, and won’t let the forestry industry have any money from the carbon credits it earns.
But in economic terms they’re well to the right of the government this country had when I was born. Muldoon set a top tax rate of over 60%, set tariffs on so many imported goods that we had tariffs to protect industries we didn’t even have, used taxpayers’ money to subsidise our main export industries, built factories we didn’t need just to create jobs, tried to stop inflation by passing a law against it, and gave money to the Mongrel Mob to run subsidised work schemes.
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kahikatea
You were lucky that you were born during that time, I stated my working life when Muldoon was still PM, I can tell you my hatred of socialism came from that man and he was supposedly a Tory…..work that one out!
The 80’s was a funny time politically, you had Labour (the first Lange govt is still the best I have ever seen) who were in reality almost right wing extremist and a silly old Muldoon who thought he could get rid of inflation by outlawing it.
I know that Douglas (and Richardson) are despised by may from the hard left but the reality is that without these two people our country would not be in the healthy state it is now, the current corrupt lot like to take all the credit and blame anything bad on the Nat’s (as witness today when Labour tried to cast the blame for the appalling child health and welfare stats on the last National govt) but the facts are that Douglas and Richardson took the tough choices that saved this nation.
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