Commentators seem to be missing a few points – how does a govt owned company award a $110m contact to it’s own subsidiary without an open tender – where are the checks and balances? How can they say that spending that much will not cause power price rises – do they print their own money?
The biggest feature of smart meters is missing – why can’t I choose to buy power from any retailler – if they meter by the 1/2 hr then they can charge by it. I want to by from Meridian today, Mercury tomorrow and get my night rate from Trustpower. This is how I buy other energy (petrol) which allows better competition. Answer – a retailer is trying to highjack the market with it’s own device. This is not what consumers want, it’s what retaillers want.

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Well said stuey!

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How come of none of you R-W posters ever say “in my opinion”. How come you always come out with these outright statements (apparantly self-evident to you), with no references, or any sort of backup such as “Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.” Are you all egotists?

IMHO, the only reason socialism has failed in most countries is because their democratically elected socialist goverments have been underminded or overthrown by the CIA. Otherwise there would be a much longer list of successful socialist countries.

Basta! Viva la revolution!

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BJChip

>>Jeanette was speaking of ideals, not of policy, and I do believe she knows the difference.

I suspect fanciful, unrealistic ideals are the source of the problem. Nice idea, wrong species.

>>everyone a fair chance to earn respect that is not based on what they >>“have� but on who they are.

I don’t base my respect for others on what they have. I don’t know anyone who does. It would say a lot more about the person doing the judging that those being judged.

>>Right now the problem isn’t how much tax we pay but how weird the >>effective rates are. 90% 25% 90% 39% ,,, its a f^ing roller-coaster and >>the wealthiest are not the hardest hit by any means.

Why should the wealthiest be “hardest hit”?

>>Wealth is indeed the only goal permitted in the popular culture. It is not >>the only goal permitted, but it is the only goal promoted.

That is nonsense. In the US, maybe….

>>Socialism produces none of the things you decry unless it is taken to extremes.

Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried. Those countries with socialist leanings operate far to the right of where Marx ever envisioned.

>>Which part of it is the real New Zealand when government is in cahoots with bankers in suits to keep housing prices rising and money flowing to… Australia?

I think the last thing the government wants is rising house prices. Which is why Cullen keeps making odd noises.

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Hi Chris

Have asked John Blakeley, the editor, if he can post the article.

cheers

Russel

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mercury energy’s press on the topic from August 2006 says quite the reverse – that these meters will be

a major help to household budgeting

and

the new Smart Meters will enable customers to make better energy efficiency decisions.

“They have the potential to show customers how much power a microwave uses compared to their oven. It also enables them to compare how much electricity they use compared to similar households,” says Dr Turner.

Russel, are you able to post any more of the original article for comparison of EnergyWatch’s statements against Mercury’s press? It would be interesting to be able to compare the two arguments.

Perhaps Arc’s project may have had its original scope limited in order to get things to launch. We can only guess at such things … I would hate to think that a power company would have any reason to prevent consumers from making informed decisions

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PeterExitsLeft

What wasn’t said was how much. Jeanette was speaking of ideals, not of policy, and I do believe she knows the difference.

We criticize the culture of consumption because it IS needful to understand its abuse of the human spirit. It is important to value everyone’s contributions and afford everyone a fair chance to earn respect that is not based on what they “have” but on who they are.

Right now the problem isn’t how much tax we pay but how weird the effective rates are. 90% 25% 90% 39% ,,, its a f^ing roller-coaster and the wealthiest are not the hardest hit by any means.

Wealth is indeed the only goal permitted in the popular culture. It is not the only goal permitted, but it is the only goal promoted.

Socialism produces none of the things you decry unless it is taken to extremes. Capitalism produces few evils unless it is taken to extremes. The balance must be struck somewhere and the question of where it happens to be right now may be the real issue dividing us. New Zealand has problems with its Capitalism AND its Socialism, as that roller-coaster shows. Which part of it is the real New Zealand when government is in cahoots with bankers in suits to keep housing prices rising and money flowing to… Australia?

It’s late. I don’t want to do this tonight.

BJ

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I think that anything that exposes consumers to the illusion of spot prices for electricity should be avoided at all cost. If we paid the true cost of the units of electricity we consume and not the arbitrary cost forced on us by the daily supply charge we would be a lot better off.

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Well said Peter

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And where is the money going to come from? Who is going to work when they can live comfortably on a benefit? What tax rate would be too high? Do you pay more tax than you need to now? Why not? You can choose to pay as much as you like to the IRD.

Wealth is not the “only” goal allowed. What utter nonsense. Perhaps people should stop watching so much television and get out more.

Socialism produces poverty, misery, and environmental damage. Why, oh why do environmental groups cling to it?

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Jeanette’s speech:

“…..Making money on the share market is success, and the main thing to be emulated. We make heroes of the wealthy.

We are surrounded with advertising messages that to be successful and happy you need the latest kitchen and car and boat and air conditioning system. We rarely make heroes of those who bring up their children to be happy, creative, and secure. We do not value the years of unpaid work in creating a healthier environment, care for the elderly and children, promotion of democracy and freedom of information, work as citizens contributing to council plans and policies. We value creating wealth, but not creating community.

How, then, are those who do not have wealth expected to feel? If the only way they can get social recognition and self esteem is to make money, but they are struggling with poor housing, ill health or mental health problems, alcohol or drug dependency, and handicapped by poor diet and lack of parenting skills, why would they ever enter the game at all? If their culture which should be a source of pride and identity is constantly being trashed by others who want us to all be the same, why would they bother trying to compete?

And when we look at all those handicaps we have to recognise that many of them are caused or at least exacerbated by lack of money in the first place. So we have a vicious cycle where extreme poverty encourages ill health, poor housing, drug dependency, gambling problems and poor diet, and those handicaps in turn prevent people from overcoming their poverty. .

I believe a Green approach to social deprivation must accept that it is in part a cultural and even spiritual deprivation. It cannot be addressed without spending substantial money both on income support and on the professional help many families need to deal with deep seated problems. Every child and every adult should have a chance to fulfil themselves, supported by a wage or benefit that is actually enough to live on with dignity. But money alone will not be enough. They also have a right to live in a system that honours their contribution even when it is outside the paid workforce….”

Firstly, Jeanette’s democratic participation speaks for itself and is a credit for all involved. I would make a distinction which she has not between making “profit” and creating real wealth, one is inherently holistic and the other inherently not. Can you guess which is which? And can you guess what our collective dysfunction rewards and punishes?

It is this bankruptcy that underscores ALL things, which our democracy has been capitulated to, that if you want to be a part of society you are required to commit to, the only goal allowed is one of getting richer and richer.

Until this is fixed and put in sync with nature, the overall big picture will only laugh at any efforts to the contrary i think.

Education, housing, health, food, media blah blah blah is all driven by getting richer and richer, not by what those fundamentals of life are actually suppose to function for in nature….Hence the dsyfunction.
It is a common wealth, as Democrats for Social Credit have always had at the forefront, that perversly will take the money orientated profitering away from the things that are timelessly ordained to provide wealth and nourishment for people as long as they are honoured for what they ARE.
While the requirements to live with dignity continue to necessitate the drive to get richer and richer endlessly, everything will remain wolfs dressed up in sheep’s clothing and it is only a Social Credit that will enable the sheep to have a say about what’s for dinner, as the great american broadcaster Bill Moyers said recently,” by arming it with a gun”, so it can choose…..green grass!

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UK_kiwi,

Worse then that. I just checked my power bill. $80.75 (inc GST) to Mercury for electricity use, $45.43 (inc GST) to Vector for the lines.

However the Vector part has a fixed low cost $3.96 and a variable high cost component dependent upon usage of $36.42. So yes techically the less you use the cheaper to cost.

However have to concur with your opinion that electricity charges in the greater scheme of our household expenses is but a minor component. Only $4.07 per day. So for the convenience of having full time electricity to power my appliances that is very cheap and also very manageable.

The incentive to save is therefore minimal.

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“a non profit driven (but still efficient) government department”

heh

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“Currently atround 30% of the electricity charges is line rental.”

You must have a very low usage! Most people’s is less than 10%.

While the idea of smart metering is great, a heck of a lot of people like to switch the jug on first thing in the morning, and are going to do it regardless of how much it costs. For most people, the cost of electricity (and energy in general) is a negligible part of their existence, far less than the mortgage/car/hp payments.

If people wanted a cheap alternative to net metering, how about some kind of web-based app or 3g mobile type dealie which told you the spot price? Perhaps you could buy a blutooth dongle to stick on the fridge?

Also given that most NZ hot water cylinders can be turned on and off remotely through ripple control, and hot water is ~50% of your electricity bill, there is a brute force smart metering available by the power companies already (unsure if they use this already).

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Worldchanging.org has got a lot on this subject, they call it “making the invisible visible” and say that only this can reduce consumption, and they advocate design of appliances and houses that integrate easy-to-use visual displays as feedback mechanisms, e.g. simple colour coded graphical readouts.

Design for Increased Energy Awareness
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002253.html

DIY Circuit Monitoring
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003137.html

Making the Meters Smarter
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002955.html

Show People Their Energy Use, and They Use Less
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002370.html

Sabrina Raaf and Making Visible the Invisible
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002363.html

Spirational!!

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Be nice to if they dropped their line charges and just billed for the electricity used. Built the charges for the repair and maintenance in the unit charges.

Any new line development work should come of borrowings or retained profits.

Currently atround 30% of the electricity charges is line rental. While you can get to a theoritical zero power user you still have to pay those line charges even if you dont use them.

How will the people owned line companies make a profit as they are supposed to as an SOA if people use less electricity? Simply push the price up even when we use less electricity?

Electrical reforms wont come about till we seriously install the infastructure back as a non profit driven (but still efficient) government department.

Jeez, saying that does that mean I lose my rightwing status?

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