I also believe that we have taken the wrong track in the Middle East if we wish to promote the values of equality and democracy (and hence fundamentally undermine fundamentalist terrorism).
——————-
I think it’s time to stop refering to Maori as Tangata Whenua and accept that we have occupied the old place long enough to be Tangata Whenua.
JH

>Why is information gathering and sharing with our allies an overwhelmingly bad thing?

It’s not a bad thing if the government in question deserves to be our ally. However, it seems to me that all the dodgy things the current US government has got up to mean that they should not be considered our ally. And officially they’re not our ally, and haven’t been for most of my life.

If they’re not our ally, and with their current policies they shouldn’t be, then we certainly shouldn’t be helping their intelligence gathering. Even if the intelligence isn’t being used to further any of the US government’s dodgier policy aims (and I doubt that) , pulling out of the echelon spy network is one of the few ways New Zealand can protest against US foreign policy in a way that the US government actually cares about.

Gerrit Says:
January 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 am
Meanwhile her bills dont get paid and she incurs penalties from her Bank (Kiwi Bank) for automatic payment not being made. Very stressful for her at a festive time of year.
and
big bruv Responds:
January 22nd, 2007 at 7:20 pm
“Instead of WINZ being a caring organistion off the people - by the people - for the people they are a corporate, paying bonuses to staff for “saving moneyâ€? (or underpaying entitlements).”
… and …
“Another example ever tried dealing with Kiwi Bank? You don’t talk to the counter staff about issues you may have but to an impersonal call center who do very little and know not much more. Again not a helpful and efficient government corporate. â€?

Well, I have had experience of the DPB on two occasions when my children were young (as a “top up” for a sometimes inadequate income for variable part time work). I found the staff excellent and helpful, but I agree that for complex cases, less articulate/assertive beneficiaries might sometimes need an advocate … so good on you Gerrit!

Interesting that you both found it necessary(?) to mention kiwibank in a negative light! (I wonder if you would have for any other bank?)

I am a VERY SATISFIED customer of kiwibank.
(After mixed experiences with various major banks over many years and in several countries I decided to “make the move” and now I would rate kiwibank “right up there”!) The excellent advice, the absolute efficiency and speed of the transfer of a set of complicated accounts, including a motgage, was painless and showed the strength of their system, their careful use of technology, and deployment of staff.
I find the Call Centres excellent, and have been transfered to an expert (usually THE expert) immediatelyin the required area.

I would follow the cheeky-little-green-car anyday!

My post yesterday got eaten by the frog (or was that a kingfisher) so I’ll try again! My concern is that the intelligence collected at Waihopai is being used to assist the US with their war for oil in Iraq. That war has cost literally hundreds of thousands of lives and is ethically untenable (as well as illegal under international law as it had no UN mandate). So I think the price is too high to pay.

I also believe that we have taken the wrong track in the Middle East if we wish to promote the values of equality and democracy (and hence fundamentally undermine fundamentalist terrorism). When the UK and the US instigated the overthrow the democratically elected Mossadegh government of Iran in 1953 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaddeq) we went down (or continued down) a path of suppressing the democratic forces who in the long run could be allies of the good parts of the Enlightenment. The west backed dictators like Saddam. The secular democratic resistance to the west was ultimately destroyed and the religous resistance came to the fore. The whirlwind that is the rise of islamic fundamentalism and terrorism is in many ways a result of our long history of intervention and western suppression of democracy.

Rather than waging a war of terror we would do better to seek engagement and support democracy. For example I believe that there is currently tremendous opportunity to engage with Iranian supporters of democracy and a less fundamentalist government in Iran. They have experienced the theocracy first hand. But it is next to impossible while the US is threatening their country and the theocratic leadership can rally people around the nation’s survival (remember that Iraq invaded Iran with US support in 1980).

Russel

As several of your readers have noted, any country, but particularly a small country like NZ, needs good intelligence gathering and analysis capabilities - primarily to find out about potential threats well in advance of those occurring. This is all the more so in a time when many actual and potential threats exist - Islamic terrorism, Chinese resurgence, and organized crime in the South Pacific, to name a few.

If the price of having good intelligence is some cooperation with the US, then this is a price that we should be prepared to pay.

Peter
http://www.kotare.typepad.com/thestrategist

On the subject of GCSB: NZ contractors have worked on hardware & software solutions for them, and still do, in order that there is systems compatibility with the bits the USA wants to share.

On Nicky Hagar: He has stated many times, he was approached by factions within the National MP’s, who spoke to him willingly, out of concern for their party’s future. No hacking required, just the archaic but predictable knifing in the back that goes on in the politics of intergenerational succession.

Eredwen: you & me both, I’d like to just drop everything/one I’m responsible for & go camping, maybe next year

cheers, katie

I think you’ll find that the NZ GCSB hands over the raw data (i.e. the signals they snoop on) to the Americans… who run it through their computers to extract information from it, and give back to NZ anything they feel like giving back.

I’d be surprised if they gave our people direct access to the hardware and software they use to extract the interesting bits out of the vast mass of noise.

So it’s not a matter of NZ gathering and sharing information with the USA, but of NZ providing a technical service.