Postcard from China
One of the tadpoles has been in Beijing, China this week on route to the Global Young Greens Conference and World Social Forum Meeting in Nairobi, Kenya and has been blown away this Bustling metropolis of 15 million people.
He sent an email to keep us all up to date with his exploits. This is what he wrote:
China has been high in the media’s focus for the last few years with many calling it an ‘emergent superpower,’ and commenting on its rapidly growing economy. With gross domestic product growth rates of around 8% for the last three decades it has seen its economy balloon and a voracious demand for resources, oil especially.
Walking around Beijing I have been struck by the contradictions, vast skyscrapers and huge Western-style malls selling expensive international products amongst true poverty, beggars and crumbling apartment blocks.
The city is obviously in the midst of fantastic change and is undertaking a massive building craze with cranes dotting the skyline building new towers, new ring roads and extending the subway system in time for the Beijing Olympics in 2008.
Often this has come at the risk of traditional buildings and communities. The hutongs or narrow alleyways, often opening on to traditional courtyard houses wind through suburbs and are vibrant communities where often families have lived for centuries are under threat from this building boom.
I have been shocked by the share scale of traffic on the roads, with some eight or more lanes on each side then large cycle lanes on the sides. The air quality is terrible with many people wearing masks and the car fumes remind me of Queen or Vivian Streets. 1000 extra vehicles join the roads each day yet the city has a great metro and bus system which about 50-60% of Beijing’s people use.
It’s been great to see that Beijing has trolley buses as well, yet unfortunately much of the electricity is powered by coal with perhaps another 550 coal-fired power stations planned to be built. The streets are clean yet waste is a massive problem with 400 million tonnes expected by 2020 (that’s as much as the world produced in 1997) and around 50 000 hectares of land around the cities are rendered useless by the garbage.
China has acknowledged the threat of climate change which could cause ‘dire consequences’ especially in agricultural production and has undertaken to have 10% of electricity powered by renewable energy by 2010 and in its 11th 5 year plan is attempting to become 20% more energy efficient, yet it has seen a near 1% increase in the first half of this year.
Often developed countries have demanded that the less developed counties do more about climate change as an excuse for not acting themselves but we have to acknowledge that we have had centuries of industrialisation behind us and have polluted and emitted a massive amount in the past.
We need the developing countries to do more, but we too have to set a positive example and work internationally with fair and equitable agreements to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
It is great to have a first hand impression of Beijing from a young Green whose generation will live with all the implications of what he saw/experienced in a huge, heavily overpopulated country seeking “a higher standard of living” for its citizens.
If all such people “achieve the standard of living and lifestyle” that many Kiwis take for granted and many more aspire to, the Planet and its support systems will not “deliver the goods”.
Until far more of us “in the developed countries” live with the idea that none of us have the right to more than a SUSTAINABLE share (and that this share system needs to include the other lifeforms on the Planet) our future will be increasingly bleak.
I, (and the young adults in the family) have determined to live by this idea. So far our transition has been interesting, enjoyable and very healthy.
I thoroughly recommend it !
January 17th, 2007 at 9:48 am
head for shanghai..!..young frog..!
beijing is to shanghai as canberra is to sydney..
phil(whoar.co.nz)..
January 17th, 2007 at 10:05 am
and if of a sensitive disposition…young frog..
i’d steer clear of the dog-meat restaurants..eh..?
but do try to meet as many chinese people as you can..
(don’t just ‘confer’ with the other furriners..eh..?..)
i have wonderful memories of/from travelling in china..
hope you do to..
phil(whoar.co.nz
January 17th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
“The air quality is terrible with many people wearing masks and the car fumes remind me of Queen or Vivian Streets.”
Bwahahaha - the comparison is indicative of why the Greens can’t be taken seriously. Yes Vivian and Queen Sts are really comparable to what has been labelled the air pollution capital of the world. To even compare the two shows typical green severe lack of proportion, and tendency to exaggerate in order to create environmental crises that can be used to justify the solving of a non existent problem.
I mean I know that there are a lot of ESL schools in Queen St so you could be forgiven for thinking you were somewhere in Asia… but really you do need to get out more.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
insider
I totally agree with your comments, I read that and thought exactly the same thing.
The Green “cause” would be far better served with out stupid statements like that, the other one I remember most from last year was “Petrol will be $2 a liter by Christmas”
January 17th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Yeah, the insistence that the rising price of petrol was evidence of Peak oil, and therefore was inevitably going to keep rising, showed a complete misunderstanding of the idiocies of modern capitalism. I wonder what will be said now that the price is falling and OPEC is talking of cutting production?
By the way, if you think Beijing’s air pollution is bad, head over to Turfan in Xinjiang. I barely left the hotel in daylight hours as breathing was distincly unhealthy.
January 17th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Maybe the stink is the same, not the density? Guys, you really are all too happy to take things whatever way you wish as long as you can tar us with those overly broad brushes.
Some Greens said stuff like that, and some were more careful to note the real situation with oil. Peak oil is coming, and no doubt at all about it, but global recession is likely to arrive first. After noting that and that the oil market is gamed more thoroughly than any other, anyone who makes predictions about where it will be in the middle term and in US $ is a fool.
Moreover, you can’t ever see the peak until you’re well past it.
Prepare for the worst. Let your surprises be pleasant.
BJ
January 17th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
We need the developing countries to do more, but we too have to set a positive example and work internationally with fair and equitable agreements to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
Do you think our positive example with regards to human rights has changed China’s opinions in anyway?
Given their ruthlessness, do you think any agreement they make will be fair and equitable, or will be honoured if they change their minds?
January 18th, 2007 at 1:18 am
zen tiger: Your human rights comment hits a nerve!
However, the paragraph that you quote includes the words “but we too” … (have to set a positive example and work internationally).
I take from this the thought that “every bit counts” and thus “everyone” no matter how small, needs to do his or her bit.
The oft repeated “but whatever we do won’t make a difference” from detractors on this blog, overlooks the fact that the entire human population of the Planet is made up of individual humans collected together into groups ranging in size from very small to very large.
Collectively what each of these people/groups do, will have an affect the outcome for the whole Planet … be it human rights or mitigating climate change. (This includes what you do, what I do, and collectively,
what teeny tiny Aotearoa/New Zealand does.)
“Never doubt that a group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.� (Margaret Mead)
January 18th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
I don’t disagree with your comment Eredwen, but I do wonder how likely China is to agree to anything significant that is fair and equitable in the field of climate change in the short term.
And if the Greens are right, we may not have the long term to wait. We have limited resources for nearly everything but hope.
But give your last sentence, maybe we don’t have to worry about time limits? When the time is right, China will see the sense of change and committed individuals can roll back the damage….
January 18th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
ZenTiger
The Chinese are well aware of the cost to their environment of the growth in their economy. Ruthless they may be, but that yields some efficiencies when they decide to change something.
They’ve also previously indicated a willingness to cooperate on this issue IF the USA took it seriously. At the time the USA was IIRC , not listening.
That was then. What happens now is anyone’s guess, but I’d bet on their cooperation…
BJ
January 18th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
and the chinese are working at it..
i’ve noted before that most american-made cars cannot now be sold in china..because they don’t meet chinese environmental/emission standards..
and just for the moment..maybe zen tiger..an unashamed bush/war booster..and climate change denier..
could focus his environmental ire at the worlds’ biggest polluter..by many a country-mile..
but he won’t do that..it dosen’t fit with his political agenda..
and interesting that zen tiger feels ok..has no qualms about..coming to a site to challenge the basic beliefs of most of that sites’ inhabitants/lurkers..
yet should you try the same thing at his rightwing/war-boosting/climate-change denying blog-co-op..sir humphry..
you will first get tirades of the most foul abuse..(they really are potty-mouths..those rtighties..eh..?..)
there is one bottom-dweller there called whale-blubber..and he’s a right case..!)
then they will ban you..!
and whatever you do..don’t go there and laugh at their idiocies..
you’ll get a life ban…
selective free-speech/challenging of ideas..eh..?
oh hypocritical one..?
disclaimer: i am currently under a life ban..
the straw that broke that particular camels’ back was when i went and cackled at them..as they all had their mini-diana moments..after that stingray enacted karmic revenge for all those creatures poked/prodded/hassled/harrassed/wrestled by steve irwin..
(and how about that bindi..?..eh..?..and stage-mum..?..whoar..!..eh..?..)
anyway..i called them the ‘irwinites’..and asked if they still had their little shrines up..?
they all hyper-ventilated….and life-ban..
you can add humourless to hypocritical..eh..?
(it’s quite a refreshing exercise..eh..?..savaging righties..
sorta puts a skip in my step..eh..a good resolute rightie-savaging..)
tho’..with that lot..it sorta feels like kicking someone when they are already down..eh..?
i mean..their war-boosting/climate-change denying voices are becoming lonlier and lonlier..eh..?
they really are the luddites of our age..eh..?
and students of irony can delight in the fact that ‘luddite..!..” used to be the throwawy insult used by them against those early warners of these problems..
such as the greens..and assorted travellers..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 18th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
phil u Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
[#############]
Why can’t you write like a normal person?
JH
January 18th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Hello Phil. I’m not so sure the Chinese are “working at it” to the extent you say. They ratified Kyoto because, as developing country, they are exempt from any commitments to curb pollution at home. They have said they will not be signing up for stage 2 in 2013. Seven of the top ten polluted cities in the world are in China. I can see that they at least have a very visible hint to curb emissions. However, their growth rate is putting them on a course to overtake even the United States in the next dozen years.
I am not happy about the USA’s pollution levels, but signing up for Kyoto is not one of my criteria for “doing the right thing”. I am an AGW skeptic, but I do see the sense in protecting the environment and driving for sustainability. I don’t support Kyoto, but would happily have the government calculate the payment and then put the money towards environmental initiatives in NZ
Overall, I am optimistic that technology and inidividual action will lead to the political parties picking up the issue and showing some sense. I looked into the Greens Eco-Tax policies and although I am not happy with them in their entirety, I am happy with the concept of a tax on the ‘bads’, probably a carbon based tax and a shift in the tax structures.
And regarding the banning on Sir Humphrey’s - you are banned for constantly being rude. It is not a “freedom of speech” issue, it is a simple matter of respect for your host.
My opinions are different to the Frogs, but I have no qualms or shame about coming here to debate. I would think I am welcome until such time I disrespect the hosts, who could understandably withdraw their welcome. That doesn’t preclude the odd stoush. It was the same deal for you at Sir Humphreys. Given the ban, I am not visiting your blog. Good luck with it.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
I know this is slightly off topic but I could not help but laugh this evening when watching the news, there was a story about Sir Ed retuning to the ice for what will most likely be the last time, sadly he is being accompanied by Helen Klarke and a few of her ministers…the ironic thing for me was that here is she (a self admitted American hater) traveling down to the ice in an American military plane.
January 19th, 2007 at 12:42 am
“I’ve noted before that most american-made cars cannot now be sold in china..because they don’t meet chinese environmental/emission standards”
What rot, cars are manufactured to the standards applicable for each market - US cars for the US market have left hand drive for example. You may as well argue that Japanese ones cannot be sold in the US because they have right hand drive. In addition, you might note that the Chinese car market is flooded with local copycat manufacturers make nasty cheap versions of foreign cars.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
liberty scott…um..left/right drive and emmission levels are two different things..eh..?
and yes..there are contradictions within those policies..
i just feel there is almost an eagerness to jump on china..yet..as noted..america is..by a series of country miles..the biggest polluter..yet nary a word against them from the likes of zen tiger….
gee big bruv..thanks for alerting us to the fact new zealanders travelled on an american plane..
(you know what..?..i’ve heard this isn’t the first time this has happened..!
i believe they also sometimes travel on commercial american air carriers as well..!
shocking..eh..?
and last…but not least..jh..
y’know jh..it’s an affectation that has grown into a habit…
and a small part of the reason i’ll continue doing it .is because it really p*sses off the an*l-retentive ones that live amongst us..
eh jh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 19th, 2007 at 7:19 am
and zen..thanks for your ‘good luck’ on whoar..
but i think it is past the ‘luck’ phase..eh..?
(ahem..!..i’ll note/boast i’m currently doing your monthly average ‘traffic’..80,000. in under four days…)
whoar..!..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 19th, 2007 at 9:41 am
phil u Says:
January 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
y’know jh..it’s an affectation that has grown into a habit…
***********
I don’t like having to spend too much time unwrapping parcels.
****************
I think whoar is a good effort. The problem perhaps is that it is fairly general(?) + covering what a lot of other people cover.
You did the Green movement a favour (I think) with your insider expose article: The left goes for the mortgage
http://whoar.co.nz/?p=5245
JH
January 19th, 2007 at 10:41 am
jh..thanks for your commendation..
and as for the ‘generalist’ tag..?
that is what i am trying for…
and i must be doing something right..
i am just about to crack my 8 millionth hit/page request..
(that figure again..8 million..!..whoar..!..eh..?..)
and that number since just sept last year..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
January 19th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Hey Big Bruv - when did Helen Clark admit hating Americans?
January 19th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Sam
Often
January 19th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
er, right yes, so can you actually quote one of them? link to one of them?
no, you can’t can you?
January 19th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
big bruv:
“…I could not help but laugh this evening when watching the news, there was a story about Sir Ed retuning to the ice for what will most likely be the last time, sadly he is being accompanied by Helen Klarke and a few of her ministers…the ironic thing for me was that here is she (a self admitted American hater) traveling down to the ice in an American military plane.”
The “sadly” bit is supposed to be an insult I suspect?
I get your “point”, but by making it you expose your ignorance.
For your information:
1. Helen Clark has excellent credentials in the mountain/ice community. She has done the hard work and is now a competent climber in her own right. Ed Hillary would be very happy to have her in the same Party.
2. The Americans have used Christchurch as their base for Antarctic flights for a long time now. The “military” aspect of the planes that fly to Antarctica has nothing to do with combat, or they would not be flying to Antarctica. (Check the status of that continent!)
eredwen = mountain woman (and yes, I do know Ed Hillary.)
January 19th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
big bruv:
Following on from the above … I would regard anyone who doesn’t “hate” the behaviour of the current American Administration, in regard to the Middle East in particular, as either ignorant of the facts (not at all surprising given the sad state of our “news” media these days!) or lacking in intelligence or “humanity”.
(In your case, BB I do hope it is the first of those options!)
Try reading this carefully and see how you react:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17206.htm
and there is lots more …
e
January 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
eredwen
I would regard anybody who is arrogant enough to claim that their views are representative of the ENTIRE NZ population as ignorant of that facts or lacking in intelligence or humanity.
Bur seriously, you cannot win every argument by laying claim to the moral high ground if your opponent does not share those same views, all that shows is an inability to argue your point, if you have to resort to name calling then I suspect your argument is not very strong.
As for Klarke going to the ice, Sir Ed would not have had much of a choice really, she (Klarke) was always going to go along as it is a great way to get herslf some publicity.
January 20th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
bb:
“Whatever!”
You have misunderstood the tone of my writing and have obviously assumed I was trying to be “one up” on you. (That is probably what you are used to.)
However, as you didn’t take the time to reread what I wrote to check if that was the case (or at least give me the benefit of the doubt) before “launching forth”, it is unlikely that I will take the time to answer you in future.
This is a Green website. When you are on it (as a guest) your contributions would be more effective if you heeded the very old saying “When in Rome do as the Romans do.”
We are interested in the points of view of others, and I am GENUINELY CONCERNED that people who are obviously interested are not aware of the very serious dangers that are currently facing life on this Planet.
Please do one thing for yourself. Open the webaddress I gave you and read the article as a “human being”, whatever your political leanings. Think about it and discuss its contents with a few other people.
Bear in mind that we all SHARE this Planet and it is a “closed system”. Whatever any one person does to damage that system ends up affecting all life on the Planet. Also bear in mind that political ideas come and go, money is a tool and it can become worthless.
If you did take the time to do this … then I would be interested in continuing a dialogue with you.
Best wishes
eredwen
January 22nd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Comet McNaught’s tail is 30million kms long and I can see all of it (and thats what we can see) Don’t we all feel pretty small?
Comets both portend and foretell. Perhaps a cogent reminder for all of us.
For those for whom the GREENS apparent anti-capitalist agenda is a bridge to far, consider C&C supporter
“The economy is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the environment” / Archbishop of Canterbury
If the Earth doesn’t belong to all of us, who does it belong to?
/Blair
January 26th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
# big bruv Says:
January 18th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
>I know this is slightly off topic but I could not help but laugh this evening when watching the news, there was a story about Sir Ed retuning to the ice for what will most likely be the last time, sadly he is being accompanied by Helen Klarke and a few of her ministers…the ironic thing for me was that here is she (a self admitted American hater) traveling down to the ice in an American military plane.
>
Interesting how some people like Big Bruv automatically assume that everyone who criticises the policies of the US government is a hater of America and all things American. If I criticise the Australian government, nobody accuses me of hating Australians; if I criticise the Italian government, nobody accuses me of hating Italians; if I criticise the New Zealand government, nobody accuses me of hating New Zealanders. Funny, that principle only seems to apply with the US and Israel.
January 27th, 2007 at 12:52 am
Well said kahikatea !
January 27th, 2007 at 7:54 am
kahikatea Says:
January 26th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
nteresting how some people like Big Bruv automatically assume that everyone who criticises the policies of the US government is a hater of America and all things American. If I criticise the Australian government, nobody accuses me of hating Australians; if I criticise the Italian government, nobody accuses me of hating Italians; if I criticise the New Zealand government, nobody accuses me of hating New Zealanders. Funny, that principle only seems to apply with the US and Israel.
——————————————————————-
How about the US as the face of Western power and influence?
Looking from the outside, there doesn’t seem to be much reason to justify the protests. People will look at the characters in the plot and draw their own conclusions.
JH
January 27th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Sorry, right answer,wrong question. Eredwen will give me a zero again.
JH
January 27th, 2007 at 9:14 am
jh
That post is worth full marks!