Comments on: Street politics - alive and well http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/ hopping along the corridors of power Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:36:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-24025 bjchip Sat, 24 Feb 2007 06:28:57 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-24025 They got to Winston Peters' mind?!! Hat's off to them.... it must have been very difficult to locate.... :-) (*sorry, I could NOT resist*) BJ They got to Winston Peters’ mind?!! Hat’s off to them…. it must have been very difficult to locate…. :-) (*sorry, I could NOT resist*)

BJ

]]> By: oldlux http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-24021 oldlux Sat, 24 Feb 2007 03:36:45 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-24021 A simple process of keeping supplement and pharmaceutical product honest is for a legal requirement that any product put on the market has to have a covering explanation of the natural process and foods required to maintain the healthy system involved in the treatment. eg. for any cancer treatment the discussion of the immune process and its process of killing and discarding cells that start mutating plus the processes of natural regeneration, and the nutrients known in the process. If this came from a database that accumulated this knowledge then any new drug or natural product discovered would have to be put in the context of what it replaces and the discipline of this gives a bit more impetus to comparable study of the natural processes. Maybe the huge computer complexes used to monitor worldwide communication would have ideal capacity. Sorry if it sounds whimsical but the supply of knowledge is the best counter to the power processes of greed. I feel it is very important to counter this bill but the big lobby groups involved with the companies have already got to the minds of the likes of Winstone Peters, and he is probably seeing the political writing on the wall and needs a new job soon. We have to keep putting the pressure on the ordinary MPs as they still have some idealism and maybe some hope to getting a better political job. A simple process of keeping supplement and pharmaceutical product honest is for a legal requirement that any product put on the market has to have a covering explanation of the natural process and foods required to maintain the healthy system involved in the treatment. eg. for any cancer treatment the discussion of the immune process and its process of killing and discarding cells that start mutating plus the processes of natural regeneration, and the nutrients known in the process. If this came from a database that accumulated this knowledge then any new drug or natural product discovered would have to be put in the context of what it replaces and the discipline of this gives a bit more impetus to comparable study of the natural processes. Maybe the huge computer complexes used to monitor worldwide communication would have ideal capacity. Sorry if it sounds whimsical but the supply of knowledge is the best counter to the power processes of greed.
I feel it is very important to counter this bill but the big lobby groups involved with the companies have already got to the minds of the likes of Winstone Peters, and he is probably seeing the political writing on the wall and needs a new job soon. We have to keep putting the pressure on the ordinary MPs as they still have some idealism and maybe some hope to getting a better political job.

]]> By: zANavAShi http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20602 zANavAShi Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:23:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20602 <b>energy</b> Says: <i>It should be the medicines going through all this scrutiny, not our natural & safe supplements - it is so riduclously ironic!</i> The word that flashed in my mind was Orwellian. "War is peace", "Ignorance is strength" and now the Corporatocracy has decreed that "Safe is unsafe" and "Codex is freedom" energy Says: It should be the medicines going through all this scrutiny, not our natural & safe supplements - it is so riduclously ironic!

The word that flashed in my mind was Orwellian. “War is peace”, “Ignorance is strength” and now the Corporatocracy has decreed that “Safe is unsafe” and “Codex is freedom”

]]> By: energy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20538 energy Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:28:08 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20538 I was just thinking about the fiasco that added to the fact that health products 'may be unsafe'. Was around the ex pharmacist of Healtheries that went to work for Pan pharmaceuticals in Australia. They found something wrong with the packaging of one of the drugs, but since the supplements were made in the same Australian pharaceutical building, they withdrew many of our supplements that were made there. So since it was their pharmacists checking & stuffing up our supplements manufufacturing up until now- maybe that is where the divide needs to happen. Manufacturing Companies making natural supplements, get supervised by natural health professionals, natural health scientists etc. A self regulating body? Herbs already have strict testing, surely there is an avenue that Nutritional Supplements could go down that would proove their already known effectiveness & safety etc. I think that we maybe need to as health professionals document our cases of effective treatment with supplements, as the orthodox really have no idea! Their fear of how supplements work around orthodox medications is half the problem. They are brainwashed to say "no dont use any supplements, to cover their own ignorance." Our health system has to change!!!! Its sick! I was just thinking about the fiasco that added to the fact that health products ‘may be unsafe’. Was around the ex pharmacist of Healtheries that went to work for Pan pharmaceuticals in Australia. They found something wrong with the packaging of one of the drugs, but since the supplements were made in the same Australian pharaceutical building, they withdrew many of our supplements that were made there.
So since it was their pharmacists checking & stuffing up our supplements manufufacturing up until now- maybe that is where the divide needs to happen. Manufacturing Companies making natural supplements, get supervised by natural health professionals, natural health scientists etc. A self regulating body?
Herbs already have strict testing, surely there is an avenue that Nutritional Supplements could go down that would proove their already known effectiveness & safety etc. I think that we maybe need to as health professionals document our cases of effective treatment with supplements, as the orthodox really have no idea!
Their fear of how supplements work around orthodox medications is half the problem. They are brainwashed to say “no dont use any supplements, to cover their own ignorance.”
Our health system has to change!!!! Its sick!

]]> By: energy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20532 energy Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:11:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20532 Not good news. I agree there needs to be a different self governing body of people who can decern what products are safe etc in the future, but it needs to not be lumped under the medicine act or pharmaceuticals. Energy medicines & nutritional supplements just dont belong under there! The medical herbalists have got their team together & they will stand strong in government, if allowed - in support of herbal medicine. But the Charter & new Accreditation Board are all that appear to be around to govern Natural therapists, not the natural health products themselves. Maybe there needs to be a separate body available to decern our right to safe products. Manufacturing side of it & safety. ( which really isnt a problem if products are what they say they are & are prescribed by trained health practioners. ) Personally, I think it is health food shops with untrained staff asked upsell upsell- the likes of hardys healthy living or smaller stores, that can give the health industry a bad name; not to mention the occasional idiot over prescribing, cause he heard it somewhere.... The 'Health' dept ( phff) & CAM didnt do a great job of decerning products at all- even getting upset & riduculing Homeopathic Arnica if I remember correctly. It should be the medicines going through all this scrutiny, not our natural & safe supplements- it is so riduclously ironic! Not good news.
I agree there needs to be a different self governing body of people who can decern what products are safe etc in the future, but it needs to not be lumped under the medicine act or pharmaceuticals.
Energy medicines & nutritional supplements just dont belong under there!
The medical herbalists have got their team together & they will stand strong in government, if allowed - in support of herbal medicine.
But the Charter & new Accreditation Board are all that appear to be around to govern Natural therapists, not the natural health products themselves. Maybe there needs to be a separate body available to decern our right to safe products. Manufacturing side of it & safety. ( which really isnt a problem if products are what they say they are & are prescribed by trained health practioners. )

Personally, I think it is health food shops with untrained staff asked upsell upsell- the likes of hardys healthy living or smaller stores, that can give the health industry a bad name; not to mention the occasional idiot over prescribing, cause he heard it somewhere….

The ‘Health’ dept ( phff) & CAM didnt do a great job of decerning products at all- even getting upset & riduculing Homeopathic Arnica if I remember correctly.
It should be the medicines going through all this scrutiny, not our natural & safe supplements- it is so riduclously ironic!

]]> By: Ross http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20524 Ross Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:48:55 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20524 I have just got a copy of this Bill thinking it would tell me how , in detail , it would affect NZ manufacturers in terms of the standards to be met etc. There are 550 pages telling how it is to be structured , administered , governence , accountability , transition provisions ,enforcement and penalties ( 70 + pages !!) and quite abit about " substantive provisions related to medicines . But that is all ,so as far as supplements are concerned we are obviously going to get the Aussie "template" laid on NZ whether we like it or not. Exactly what most of us have thought would happen. The main argument from the Govt. seems to be that we cannot afford to meet international standards by ourselves and there is a major shortage internationally of people who can do the evaluation of products to the right level. I have just got a copy of this Bill thinking it would tell me how , in detail , it would affect NZ manufacturers in terms of the standards to be met etc.
There are 550 pages telling how it is to be structured , administered , governence , accountability , transition provisions ,enforcement and penalties ( 70 + pages !!) and quite abit about ” substantive provisions related to medicines . But that is all ,so as far as supplements are concerned we are obviously going to get the Aussie “template” laid on NZ whether we like it or not. Exactly what most of us have thought would happen.
The main argument from the Govt. seems to be that we cannot afford to meet international standards by ourselves and there is a major shortage internationally of people who can do the evaluation of products to the right level.

]]> By: Baz http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20521 Baz Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:36:39 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20521 BJ The beta carotene trials were conducted by the National Cancer Institute (US). You might dismiss this as establishment medicine led by big pharma, but it does have credibility. My point wasn't a dismissal of supplements -- it was that controlled trials are needed to gauge the safety and efficacy of them. Without that you're left with testimonials, badly-conducted trials and advertising. The same goes for other areas of consumer protection. If a company is selling devices that they claim slash fuel consumption, I don't think they should be exempt from proving it just because we want to believe it's true. BJ

The beta carotene trials were conducted by the National Cancer Institute (US). You might dismiss this as establishment medicine led by big pharma, but it does have credibility.

My point wasn’t a dismissal of supplements — it was that controlled trials are needed to gauge the safety and efficacy of them. Without that you’re left with testimonials, badly-conducted trials and advertising.

The same goes for other areas of consumer protection. If a company is selling devices that they claim slash fuel consumption, I don’t think they should be exempt from proving it just because we want to believe it’s true.

]]> By: Rob http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20513 Rob Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:28:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20513 You want cancer cures, look at trials on eggplant extract. 80,000 patients cured of cancer near 100% success rate. Whole body hypothermia, thousands cured with far better results than Chemo. Capsicums destroy 50% of prostate cancers quickly. Vit D halves cancer risks. Carnivora, made from a rare plant called Carolina has a 98% cancer cure rate, what has Chemo? Polyerga had 44% longer life expectancies over non users in proper trials, whats Chemo got on that? Galvanotherapy works, as proven by 65,000 patients. Noni works as do many Glyconutrient based products have proven. Forget the medics saying its quackary, the survivers will tell you otherwise. Coriolus versicolour works up to 98% successfully in patients used, why call this rubbish. Heres a tid bit, what being touted as the best medication to bring down cholesterol, that does it better than any other drug on the market? try KIWIFRUIT. And in NZ we dont know that? You want cancer cures, look at trials on eggplant extract. 80,000 patients cured of cancer near 100% success rate.
Whole body hypothermia, thousands cured with far better results than Chemo.
Capsicums destroy 50% of prostate cancers quickly.
Vit D halves cancer risks.
Carnivora, made from a rare plant called Carolina has a 98% cancer cure rate, what has Chemo?
Polyerga had 44% longer life expectancies over non users in proper trials, whats Chemo got on that?
Galvanotherapy works, as proven by 65,000 patients.
Noni works as do many Glyconutrient based products have proven. Forget the medics saying its quackary, the survivers will tell you otherwise.
Coriolus versicolour works up to 98% successfully in patients used, why call this rubbish.

Heres a tid bit, what being touted as the best medication to bring down cholesterol, that does it better than any other drug on the market? try KIWIFRUIT. And in NZ we dont know that?

]]> By: zANavAShi http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20506 zANavAShi Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:08:19 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20506 Well said bjchip. There is no way any government legislation is going to stop me from using the regular supplements and anti-oxidants I have been using for years, even if it means I have to look to black market supplies. I wonder if I am going to get burned at the stake for using herbal medicine as many millions of women were during the inquisition? But seriously, has anybody considered in this equation with regards to the issue of "field-testing" nutritional supplements that there has been sound scientific data freely available for years on what constitutes minimum daily requirements and recommended doses for therapeutic use? Is big pharma saying that is irrelevant now? And as to the global governance aspect of this, I've been reading up a little on this Codex thing (which seems to be where this is heading for us) and I have to say it scares the bejesus out of me. Lots of useful info and activist suggestions on this site here: International Advocates for Health Freedom http://www.nocodexgenocide.com/nocodexgenocide.html Does anyone know of any current NZ groups/initiatives/petitions such as this that we can get actively involved with? Please post links here if you have. Well said bjchip. There is no way any government legislation is going to stop me from using the regular supplements and anti-oxidants I have been using for years, even if it means I have to look to black market supplies. I wonder if I am going to get burned at the stake for using herbal medicine as many millions of women were during the inquisition?

But seriously, has anybody considered in this equation with regards to the issue of “field-testing” nutritional supplements that there has been sound scientific data freely available for years on what constitutes minimum daily requirements and recommended doses for therapeutic use? Is big pharma saying that is irrelevant now?

And as to the global governance aspect of this, I’ve been reading up a little on this Codex thing (which seems to be where this is heading for us) and I have to say it scares the bejesus out of me. Lots of useful info and activist suggestions on this site here:

International Advocates for Health Freedom
http://www.nocodexgenocide.com/nocodexgenocide.html

Does anyone know of any current NZ groups/initiatives/petitions such as this that we can get actively involved with? Please post links here if you have.

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20505 bjchip Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:16:31 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/12/12/street-politics-alive-and-well/#comment-20505 Baz - The folks doing trials that you are looking at are using cr@p and attempting to isolate effects of nutrients. This is like saying that eating bread is no good because if all you eat is bread you'll get sick. I refer often to some of the literature "foisted" on me by the industry, like this... 12. J Nutr 1985 Jun;115(6):807-13 Oral alpha-tocopherol supplements decrease plasma gamma-tocopherol levels in humans. Handelman GJ, Machlin LJ, Fitch K, Weiter JJ, Dratz EA. oops... looks like someone wasn't paying attention to the literature when they tested increased doses of ALPHA tocopherol... if it were an isolated instance I would be inclined to give them the benefit of doubt, but it is systemic Baz. There is establishment "medicine" which is led by big Pharma (which has the money) and there are folks like me who want to take naturally occurring substances and use them to our benefit. This naturally removes us as a source of income for big pharma... they can't patent natural foods and treatments, and they can't prevent us from getting them unless the government helps them. So in Europe we have the "Codex" and here we have this bill and we are fighting with them everywhere, and everywhere we see useful fools siding with them for "good" but false reasons. DHEA works... dosages have to be right to get blood levels right, but it helps a lot. Melatonin works. Saw Palmetto Extract works. Gingko works, Piracetam works, GAMMA E-Tocopherol works.... and the list goes on and on and on... We know the hell some Germans are going through, and I don't know when they will ever be able to get reasonably priced supplements again... you want to bring that here? I don't think you do, but you are playing into the hands of people who want that very much indeed. Me, I don't think they've got MY best interests at heart, and I sure as hell don't trust 'em. Why do you trust 'em? BJ Baz - The folks doing trials that you are looking at are using cr@p and attempting to isolate effects of nutrients. This is like saying that eating bread is no good because if all you eat is bread you’ll get sick.

I refer often to some of the literature “foisted” on me by the industry, like this…

12. J Nutr 1985 Jun;115(6):807-13
Oral alpha-tocopherol supplements decrease plasma gamma-tocopherol levels in humans.
Handelman GJ, Machlin LJ, Fitch K, Weiter JJ, Dratz EA.

oops… looks like someone wasn’t paying attention to the literature when they tested increased doses of ALPHA tocopherol… if it were an isolated instance I would be inclined to give them the benefit of doubt, but it is systemic Baz. There is establishment “medicine” which is led by big Pharma (which has the money) and there are folks like me who want to take naturally occurring substances and use them to our benefit.

This naturally removes us as a source of income for big pharma… they can’t patent natural foods and treatments, and they can’t prevent us from getting them unless the government helps them. So in Europe we have the “Codex” and here we have this bill and we are fighting with them everywhere, and everywhere we see useful fools siding with them for “good” but false reasons.

DHEA works… dosages have to be right to get blood levels right, but it helps a lot. Melatonin works. Saw Palmetto Extract works. Gingko works, Piracetam works, GAMMA E-Tocopherol works…. and the list goes on and on and on…

We know the hell some Germans are going through, and I don’t know when they will ever be able to get reasonably priced supplements again… you want to bring that here? I don’t think you do, but you are playing into the hands of people who want that very much indeed.

Me, I don’t think they’ve got MY best interests at heart, and I sure as hell don’t trust ‘em.

Why do you trust ‘em?

BJ

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