by frog
The Government is testing the waters on the issue of vehicle emissions, hinting that a fuel-economy standard for new and used vehicles is likely in future to curb greenhouse gas emissions and encourage economical driving.
Any moves in this area are welcome as far as I’m concerned, with a couple of caveats:
1) Any standards really need to apply to large vehicles like trucks and buses, which produce greater emissions, not just small cars as the Government proposes.
2) We have to remember that people on low incomes will be disproportionately affected by any moves in this direction, which will make car ownership even more expensive than it is now. Therefore, these moves must be offset by investment in public transport so that no-one is disadvantaged by not owning a car, but can get around freely and quickly by bus and train.
Published in Environment & Resource Management | Parliament | Society & Culture by frog on Mon, October 16th, 2006
Tags: environment
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
I think that any move in the healthiest direction is better than stagnation.
I agree with your caveats, but must point out that, quite naturally, most public transport is focused around the larger cities, and tiny rural areas must rely on cars. Joy.
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Joy wrote:
“I agree with your caveats, but must point out that, quite naturally, most public transport is focused around the larger cities, and tiny rural areas must rely on cars.”
Yes, very true. But in the not-so-distant future, when petrol is $10/litre, we are going to have to get used to reduced mobility and come up with many ways to reduce petrol dependence. Some of this will involve public transport, some will involve more efficient vehicles and some will involved less mobility.
I read in the Herald today that New Zealand’s rate of car ownership has increased from 200 cars per 1000 people in 1961 to 627 now.
Well, it looks like the tide will turn in the next few years, so we’d better come up with some good solutions because the price rises are not going to let things carry on “business as usual”.
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We need to also not allow nz to become a dumping ground for old vehicles- there are horror stories about old taxis with 500K on them and things like that being imported. So restrict cars to less than 5 years old would be a reasonable idea, all of them come with catalytic convertors and are generally more efficient than the cars of 10-15 years ago. This may raise the cost of cars, but not much.
As for trucks, buses and machinery, I think restriction is a bad idea. Cheap used trucks/equipment allows NZ businesses to be more competitive and make more money, employ more staff etc. Plus the main reason they are so polluting is the high sulphur diesel outside of auckland.
As for carbon emissions and peak oil, its in the ‘too-hard’ basket IMHO. The only way people will cut down is if they are forced to by huge taxes like in britain/EU- and even there it doesn’t really stop people. This of course would be veryunpopular (with good reason.)
Public transport should be maintained and made more attractive and safe to use- CCTV at all train stations and on buses would be a start.
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The flood of second-hand cars in NZ has the effect of artificially depressing the purchase price of used cars. That price becomes a relatively small part of the cost of ownership.
Stricter emission standards, PLUS very strict fuel economy standards, on imports, could turn around the NZ vehicle fleet in a few years… Pushing up the cost of car ownership is part of the price to pay for more sustainable transport, in addition to the improvement of public transport. The sad truth is that poorer people are going to have to learn to live with reduced mobility, or move to areas with more transport options. Subsidising cars, one way or another, to help the poor, is not a good plan.
Any statistics available on engine capacity/fuel economy of imports? If the standard could be set so that only small, economical cars could be imported second-hand, that would be a good start. Those who insist on buying guzzlers can buy them new.
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yeah, put a tax on engine displacement–starting with a 10% rebate (negative tax) for people buying kei-class cars from Japan (up to 660cc). 0% tax on up to 1000cc. then 15% tax for 1500cc, 20% for 2000cc, 30% for 3000cc, etc.
Against WTO rules? how sad.
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Interesting argument about “the poor” needing to learn to live with reduced mobility.
Most of the impoverished that I know don’t have cars, and either walk, cycle or use public transport/car pool in order to get around.
I think it’s the middle classes who don’t know how to restrain themselves, and are using more fuel/private transport options, simply because they still think they can afford it, so why not?
I did live in a tiny rural area once-upon-a-childhood, and I do agree that there are places that will never acheive good public transport.
Ngaio and Khandallah, however, don’t fit that category, and are at risk of losing a public rail service, due to lack of local support for saving the line. There’s a bit of a nimby thing going on there – “My Merc is so shiny, why would I need to go in smelly buses/trains with the hoipolloi?”
There are always times when we think that private transport is the only solution; but sometimes we just need to redefine the options, and be prepared to be flexible in order for the best outcome to become evident.
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I think we need to go further than this and demand all cars are flexifuel so in a few years when ethanol is ready available we don’t have to update our car fleet again.
This government has made most rail transport unusable, we need far more freight on the rail than trucks, when will the government do something about this????
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cctv would make bus shelters distinctly UNattractive.
there’s an idea that can only have come out of britain, where the citizen’s every move is tracked & recorded, every square inch of the country under surveillance
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dear Greens, i was wondering what your position is on the latest Iran/Christianity case? you can see a brief comment on Ian Wishart’s blog – tbr.cc
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I’ll offer an opinion :
I think the guy should stay :
Firstly, I think sending him back would quite likely put his life in danger Though the Christian minority in itself is not in danger, the Iranians can get quite nasty about those who convert from Islam to Christianity, particularly if they are bible-bashers. And they execute people in Iran.
Secondly, I don’t understand why they want to deport him in the first place. I don’t believe that the country is in danger of being overrun by Iranian chefs, in fact NZ could do with more of them. Love Iranian food.
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RebelHeart:
I agree with everything Alistair said!
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Rebel
Is this chap here illegally?..if so then I agree, he should be sent back. (along with Zaoui)
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I’m not sure where the problem is. If petrol is going to be $10 soon then the market will look after vehicle efficiency and fuel consumption, but then petrol was going to be $2 by Xmas according to Jeanette so maybe oil forecasting is not a Green competency.
As for the faux outrage over the poor being disadvantaged, well where was the concern when you were proposing your expensive energy or trade policies? Who actually will pay for this replacement public transport, becasue it is going to have to be pretty omnipresent to replace the car for many trips.
If you were really concerned about the impact on poor people you would be asking why it is that the whole country should pay to upgrade the fleet just because in two or three Auckland locations they exceed one pollutant variable a few times a year. Talk about an economic sledgehammer to crack an environmental nut.
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The market will not take care of fuel efficency. The invisible hand does not tune cars. Here – Cambodia – petrol is about $US1 per litre. $40 a month is a good wage. Getting a car tuned costs a couple of dollars.
So relitively speaking, it would make a great deal more sense to have a well tuned car or truck here than elsewhere.
Unfortuatly people here do not all chant “Yes – we are all rational consumers. We will make rational economic decisions” so they do not get their vehicles tuned.
Even vehicles run by the likes of the UNDP and the WB belch great clouds of smoke. And if anyone is going to make rational economic decisions it should be the WB.
Without an enforced standard – er I mean the dead hand of the nanny state – emissions will not be reduced. Before spouting off about the joys an unfettered market will bring, you should look at a few places that have no, few or largly ignored rules to see how people actually behave – and not put such blind fath in the ideal consumer of the economic models.
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Don
We have direct NZ experience without going to Cambodia. The 74 oil shocks revolutionised car design and purchasing habits. No regulation needed. Hybrids have emerged similarly and production can’t keep up with demand. Apparantly large car demand has been dropping this year. Perhaps it is an infrmation/education issue in Cambodia or maybe the cost is not quite that clearcut?
Maybe in NZ they could trade off the WOF against tune ups. I believe our six monthly WOFs are unusual as many don;t have them or only annually. Perhaps people could be allowed an annual check if they get a tune up as well.
That said, if we can get thai tilers on the cheap I wonder if we can get Khmer tuners?
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insider, i take it your idea of preparing for peak oil and mitigating climate change is to sit back let the market solve any problems as they arise?
right-o. no prob, then! as you were.
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Insider, the reason we have hybrids is because they were designed for the American market, in particular for California. The hand of government in encouraging that development was already pretty heavy.
The Clinton Administration announced a government initiative called the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV). In the program, the government worked with the American auto industry to develop a clean car that could operate at up to 80 miles per gallon. Several years, and a billion dollars later, the PNGV emerged with three prototypes for their 80 mpg car. Every prototype was a hybrid.
Toyota’s exclusion from PNGV prompted Chairman Eiji Toyoda to create a secret project called G21, global car for the 21st century. The following year, Toyota doubled its original goal of improving fuel efficiency by 50 percent
http://www.hybridcars.com/history.html
The invisible hand is absolutely top notch at adjusting things after the costs become obvious. It sucks at anticipation.
Preparing for $10/liter fuel means more mass transit, preferably electric (which can be supplied by the wind or hydro). It takes 5-10 years just to organize buying railroad CARS, much less making sure that the track is ready to receive them. This requires vision, of which we have plenty and the invisible hand is, well its a HAND, it has no way to see.
Oh yeah… not all the greens agreed with the fuel cost predictions… some of us see a looming recession whacking demand heavily on the head for a while, and others realized that in the leadup to this US Election (with the incumbent party being the big-oil candidates) the price had to drop. It has. Strangely it did exactly the same thing before the Kerry-Bush election and in the Gore-Bush election it spiked so violently upward that there were congressional investigations that outlasted the legal shenanigans.
The WOF/tune-up idea has merit, and I am glad you brought it up. A good tune-up shop will generally not let an unsafe car out of the shop. I do like the idea, and you are right that most places don’t have 6 monthly inspection requirements. Unlike the WOF people, taking the car to the shop gives the option of getting stuff fixed immediately. I have to get CV boots, which is nice to know but if I’d been to the shop instead of the inspection place I’d have them done already.
Thanks
respectfully
BJ
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TOchigi
Oh no, not peak oil again! It’s like Halley’s Comet – disappears off into the ether only to burst back for a while with a new bunch of acolytes preaching doom and destruction in its wake. No, no don’t tell me – “but this time it really IS different”.
BJ
The impetus for the idea that led to the concept of hybrids may have come out of some Govt sponsored project but the quest for efficiency carries on independent of such sponsorships. More to the point, Toyota succeeded in spite of the govt and it is consumers that are doing the actual buying without any prompt from Govt.
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Insider… no, the point is that if the government did not LEAD the industry by the nose, nobody (no, not even Toyota) would’ve had the least interest in doing the research or taking advantage of the results, which were available to all the industry players. This is a perfect example of how the market FOLLOWS but does not anticipate the need. It cannot. It is incapable of doing it. It is efficient but it cannot anticipate.
As for peak oil, it is on us already. The dynamics of the market as we enter the recession mask the effects somewhat, but the recession itself constitutes a cost, as does the war in Iraq. What is the actual price of oil if it is paid in blood instead of $$$
BJ
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insider, i’m glad you’ve solved that one for us.
i was beginning to think petroleum was a finite resourse.
but now you’ve assured me the world can go on increasing production of petroleum forever.
i feel so much better now. toodle-pip!
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Tochigi
I never suggested it was solved just that the subject is cyclical with no evident sign of arriving, despite BJ’s assertions.
I think Jeanette Fitzsimons sums it up best; “I’ve been talking about peak oil for 30 years.” There was obviously no irony when she said that.
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oh, that’s right, petroleum is cyclical!
it cycles up out of the ground and then back into the ground then back up out of the ground, ad infinitum.
and of course the supply will just keep going up forever, or at least long enough that us party types won’t need to worry about it.
spiffing, old chap!
oh, those boring doomsayers, 30 years of telling us it will run out so we’d better prepare or face severe consequenses. And these people don’t even know what irony is. awfully bad show.
(fyi…M. King Hubbert predicted Peak Oil within half a century…in 1956.)
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No no no, the cycle referred to is the rise and fall of people claiming the end of the world is nigh. Actually they;ve been at it for more than 30 years, more like 100, just JF has been doing it for 30.
Hubbert did not say that BTW in 56 afaik, he wrote about US resources alone and his assessment of total resource for the US I believe has been surpassed in actual production, so I’m not sure if he is that good a guide.
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insider, you wear your ignorance with refreshing aplomb.
on March 8, 1956, Hubbert presented his groundbreaking thesis at a meeting of the American Petroleum Intsitute, against the wishes of his employer, Shell.
His research led him to predict that US Lower 48 crude production would peak between 1965 and 1970. He was rubbished by the industry and the USGS at the time. But US Lower 48 did in fact peak in 1970, and despite the later addition of Alaskan and deepwater GOM crude, it has NEVER AGAIN reached that 1970 level.
In 1956 he also predicted a world peak within about half a century.
but for insider, this predicting thing has been going on for a boring 50 years, its such old news. in fact, it’s just a news cycle. business as usual then!
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Tochigi
The date was his outside guess (and 1971 was the actual peak year but why quibble), but he got the actual production numbers worng, undershot by about a third. He also predicted peaks in 95 and 2000 – his fans seem to conveniently forget those ones….
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I repeat, in 1956, Hubbert predicted world peak with about half a century. Cannot comprehend? Poor you.
golly gosh, Hubbert was such a poor predicter. The actual date was at the end of his five-year range. he should have thrown in the towel there and then, eh?
there all just silly naysayers and doomers. news cycle, just a news cycle. carry on, nothing to see here.
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Insider – Is there something about a closed system that you failed to get out of your High School Science courses?
Hubbert nailed down the one he had the good data on, in the USA. The rest of the world is, well, a leetle bit bigger than the USA. It is also filled with people who don’t speak english and might not tell the truth about what they think they know anyway. There’s a lot of indications that the house of Saud is playing fast and loose with its reserve numbers, and if you’d checked the quality of what is being pumped and refined now vs 20 years ago, you’d have noticed that we’re already working quite a bit harder for each drop of petrol.
So the data for the reserves and production of the rest of the world is a lot worse than the data for the USA back in the 60′s and 70′s … we aren’t conveniently forgetting anything. We simply understand what has happened and are interested in what will happen and how to prepare for it, how to ANTICIPATE it and keep our society whole when it does happen… and as I pointed out, the invisible hand has to be burned before it can react.
BJ
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“I repeat, in 1956, Hubbert predicted world peak with about half a century. Cannot comprehend?”
Yes but there is no sign of it still, so the value of that prediction is what? In 1970 the Club of Rome said we would be all out by 2000. In 76 HUbbert said the peak would be in 95. Which one do we believe?
Hubbert’s 1956 ‘best’ estimate – ie the one he thought most likely – of peak production in 1965 was in error by 5 years – so in timing he was out by 50% (given he had a 9 year window). The actual production peak occurred at the ‘outer’ limit of his uncertainty range – ie he was sceptical in his predictions about the production volumes that were actually achieved but this was his ‘worst case’. Those numbers and subsequent predictions don’t stack up to me as ‘accurate’. Note that his estimates on gas were out by 100%.
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BJ you have hit an important point. The reality is the data is uncertain. Hubbert’s predictions show that. The Peakies can’t accept our limitations of knowledge that is why they are prone to make dramatic and conclusive statements regarding ‘the end’, that tend to be embarrassing after a short while. You would have thought they would have learnt.
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The reality is the data is uncertain
THAT’S what you focus on? Please…
Try this focus.
http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/2429/globe_west_540.jpg
You notice that it is a sort of deep black all around the little planet?
This is called a “closed” environment. Within it, growth faces real limits.
Always.
Good data let Hubbert make an accurate prediction. This is no different from data at NASA, the fuzzier the data, the fuzzier the prediction. However, IF work through the reserves in Saudi Arabia and Russia and the rest of the world, you’ll find that peak-oil happens and it is quite real and in fact that it has already happened in every decently documented known field and the average size of each pool found is declining.
In other words – Peak Oil Is Here.
What hasn’t happened, yet, is any catastrophe directly associated with it. This is one of the things that separates the greens from the aluminium beany brigade. We actually pay attention to the science and while we expect there to be problems, we don’t expect them in the short term, to be any worse than a global recession or the war in Iraq or any of a half dozen other things… but as the backslope becomes more definitely real and more and more people are chasing less and less oil the need for electric trains is going to become more and more obvious.
Building and maintaining that infrastructure has to be a national priority.
Try to understand, we are not luddites, we are greens. There’s a big BIG difference.
BJ
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BJ
While it might be a closed system we don’t know how big that overall system is. We can see that historically in the continuous revisions of the URR which has moved from 0.5tbbl in 1950 to about 3tbbl today. Hubbert himself revised his own estimates significantly over only a few years. The fact he ‘accurate;y’ predicted a date with data his own subsequent work and history showed was inaccurate is yet another reason to question the reliability of his methodology – but that’s a whole other argument.
“We actually pay attention to the science..” “we are not luddites, we are greens.” I’m going to giggle over them this weekend
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insider wrote:
“Yes but there is no sign of it still,”
ROFL!!!
ignorance (or hope) is bliss, eh?
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If fossil fuel were infinite and we keep burning it at the rate we’re going, I think that the planet would probably fry in the end from climate change. So peak oil might not be such a bad thing. In any case, whatever one’s stance on peak oil, I think we might all be able to agree that there is no point wasting the stuff by burning it in needlessly inefficient engines. That is NZ$ up in smoke and greenhouse gas emissions. Not to mention potential future implications of using up oil fast.
EECA has worked away on efficiency standards for a variety of things that use electricity. But I think that vehicles are where real big-time savings are. In my view, the best technology is the bike!
In the long term, sustainability may require us to travel by bike or public transport, with some exceptions. I’ll be pleased when we face that. The UK is developing what sounds like a great cycling network. We should be doing the same here, especially given the importance of tourism to NZ.
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Tochigi:
I think it is called “DENIAL”!
When reality is too hard to face, it comforts some to spend their energy refuting the arguments (no matter how compelling) rather than facing the big problems and conserving what we have while seeking solutions for the future (and for future generations).
Let insider have his “giggle” if it makes him feel better!
As a parent of adults (who will be parents themselves) I am constantly aware of the need to plan for the future and to change our behaviour accordingly now.
Bikes, public transport, car pooling for necessary trips, “buy local” with “REDUCE, reuse, recycle” in mind, energy efficient house renovations etc etc are heavily on our family’s agenda for starters!
I’d like Greens to come up with more “a picture (or a concept) is worth a thousand words” ideas to spread the “individual responsibility” message.
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Well, what can I say?
When a person weighs between 50 and 80 kilo’s it makes alot of sense that the powered vehicle that carries them around weighs in excess of 500 to 800- and more- kilos. But when they are unpowered ( power derived from the user), as in bicycles, the vehicle weighs a fraction of what it is intended to transport.
If we can get our collective heads around that and rationally decipher the implications we may actually be able to do something constructive.
Public transport, to a certain extent, limits the choices of the individual ( and subsequent gratification of ego), and contrary to belief I still think alot of us are individuals. Private transport enables choices but we have to disable the ego content to make it at all sustainable in the near future… therefore to enable that public transport is to be viable we have to enable ego gratification in it’s use.
It’s a paradigm shift that we need.
Personnal transport should be made uncomfortable and as light and cheap as possible without regard for decoration.
Public transport should be made to be seen as the realm of the well to do.
Not completely thought out but do you get my drift?
Oh and hats off to Tochigi for the tax incentive idea for tiny cars.
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I live in a tiny, poor, rural community. Public transport has waxed and waned over the years, currently not available.
I ride a bike into the village for mail and some goceries and work from home through the internet. Much more difficult for others whose work takes them up to 40kms away – but generally they carpool.
We have to go to town for anything other than basics – so when we go, we do everything in one trip. Pick up hitchhikers – the other mode of transport round here.
Some groups, kohanga, sports clubs, local Polytech campus use mini-vans.
We’re resourceful, we generally get by.
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Most of the rest of the world already copes with the lack of petrol powered personal transportation.
Fair warning to animal rights folks, some of this may not be nice.
http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/
It is all images, but some of it is IMHO actually worth the time to download, even for a slow connection.
This is what we will have if we are foolish enough NOT to develop wind turbines, solar power, renewable steam and electric rail.
If we’re lucky.
respectfully
BJ
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Bring it on!
That was a beautiful bunch of pictures Mr Chip. The sooner we get this this type of behaviour the better. We are so pampered and comforted these days with our big cars and other forms of transportation I’d look forward to a time where only the brave and the ridiculous ended up with private transport.
The trouble with it is that all the people in these photos are most probably poor. They aren’t doing what they’re doing out of concern for the planet. I’d love to be able to do that kinda stuff here in Auckland but I’d be thrown in Prison as a hazard. Actually I’m doing what I can to be like this. I’m currently into building various small vehicles to which I will add trailers and spend the next few years being the arty nut, transporting his junk about, who makes the kids laugh with his outlandish answers to private transport.
But really I’ll be filling up the subsonscious of those who see me with possibilities that will have to be embraced in the not to distant future.
Thanks again bj. That was wonderful.
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bjchip said: “n other words – Peak Oil Is Here.
What hasn’t happened, yet, is any catastrophe directly associated with it. ”
-well apart from the global war on terror/iraq catastrophe
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andrew,
in other words, the catastrophe hasn’t hit us yet.
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Transport-wise, amazing pictures – thank you BJ. Those people are very resourceful. I particularly liked the picture with the guy on his bike with a fridge-freezer.
Sometimes I wonder: when people get used to their cars, do they forget how easy it can be to walk and cycle? I really like it when I occasionally see people doing their supermarket shopping by bike.
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in tokyo, i always did my supermarket shopping by bike or on foot.
in tochigi, i do my shopping about half the time by bike, half the time in a 660cc car.
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Andrew… I did WAY above this in the thread, allude to the blood price of the oil.. just so you know I didn’t miss it out entirely
respectfully BJ
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artyone – I don’t agree entirely with “getting used to this” as it is a form of poverty, to have only the energy of ones own muscles to move things. This is not required to accomplish energy independence and it is not required to be green… at least not to my way of thinking. I WOULD like to see some form of covered/shielded bikeway from Porirua all the way into Wellington. It is not reasonable to expect people to cycle uphill against the wind in a whole gale… and I point out, as I have many times before, that individual vehicles pre-date the invention of internal-combustion engines by thousands of years. Generally these were one-horsepower jobs, but the engines consumed biomass and were entirely bio-degradeable.
In other words, I don’t want to be so very hasty to toss out the good bits of civilization with the wasteful bits? Otherwise dead right, we DO have to get used to that individual transportation costing somewhat more and being significantly different from what we are used to these days.
respectfully
BJ
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BJ
I agree with you re bikelanes. there is a god awful one from Petone to the city alongside the motorway. It is usually windswept and most riders use the road which can be dangerous. That could have a Kelly Tarlton’s like protective perspex shield over the top to keep the wind off – assuming it doesn’t turn it into a wind tunnel
My other stupid idea is nutcracker rope tows up the major hill roads for those without legs of steel…
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i agree with bj about the wind shelters.
as an experienced cycle commuter, i can safely say that wind is the biggest issue. don’t really care about cold or rain. you’ll soon warm up. even heat can be handled, within reason. although summer in Tokyo is not practical for cycle commuting. Singapore-like weather. almost put myself in hospital once with heat exhaustion (from only a half-hour cycle!). this is obviously not an issue in Wellington
but yes, Wellington hills i can see might be an issue. good for fitness work, though!
so insider, rope tows sound very practical. anywhere else in the world using a system like that?
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It makes a lot of sense and wouldn’t cost a heap of money. We’d need to work out the route and the easements might take some doing, but a bikeway like that reaching Johnsonville and another reaching to Lower Hutt would be darned useful. The tow rope for the steep bits is just the thing for those who no longer have the perfect vitality of youth.
Actually something as simple as bicycle lock-ups at the train stations would help a lot.
respectfully
BJ
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Anecdote Warning!
I almost feel guilty living in Europe with an extraordinarily wide range of public transport options open to me.
Including the world’s best public bicycle system.
Yesterday, feeling guilty about the fact that I generally drive from work to my girlfriend’s place (across town, about 7 km as the crow flies, takes about half an hour) I decided to leave the car at work and go there by metro, cable car and bus. Changed my mind on the way to the metro, and picked up a public bike to cycle to the cable car. (Very pleasant cycling into the setting sun, though the paving in the medieval part of the city is a bit uncomfortable… cobblerstones.) Unfortunately the bike station at the cable car was already full (obviously), so I rashly started uphill on my bike. The public bike is an unwieldy 3-speed, fine on the flat, I got a third of the way up then became a pedestrian… pushed the bike past the Roman theatre etc.
Still. Only took me 35 minutes door to door. No problem finding a space in the bike station at the top of the hill! (obviously)
Tried to do the reverse trip this morning, but there were no bikes left at the station at 8.30 (obviously). Took the bus/metro, 40 minutes door to door.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_glass
2 kilos of petroleum required to make 1 kilo of perspex. If it’s burned it turns into carbon dioxide and oxygen.
Well I suppose it’d wouldn’t be burnt as petrol in cars but held in state as perspex for as long as that stuff lasts. A few decades maybe.
Not trying to rain on anybodies parade. I just thought it was interesting that perspex was made from petroleum. So even creating tunnels for cyclists would add to peak oil.
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Yes, well Perspex is a wonderful material, but to stop the wind would we not be able to simply grow a decent hedge off to the side? As for rain, we’re experts in tin roofs and glass actually works OK as well. I don’t think this is so far fetched as to be out of reach. Might need actual lanes in each direction if we’re planning to have tow ropes.
respectfully
BJ
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Tochigi
The rope tow idea is purely my own! But they work for skiers…. I suspect it won’t work for many reasons – mechancal reliablity and road crossings etc. regular shuttles that can handle people and cycles would be more practical.
BJ
Did you miss this week’s southerly? If the hedge could survive the salt from the waves crashing over the shorline it’s likely the leaves would be shredded. My dark overgrown native bush garden is now remarkably light and airy. It needs to be solid resistant materials that protect from north and south winds.
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Insider
I have seen bushes that could handle this. Not the sort of hedges an Englishman would expect, but with a bit of berm and a bit of effort I expect that there are some native shrubs that can cope with the extreme winds. All we are talking here is organizing them a bit… and I would expect SOME solid stuff to be put in place in the worst spots, just not perspex.
respectfully
BJ
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