http://angelsmagazine.blog.de/2007/09/20/220_amerikaner_nach_taser_ein satz_gestor~3012564

1. A man with a knife threatening people in Courtney Place, Wellington

2. A man threatening to kill his mother with a knife, in Orewa

3. A man fleeing the scene of the crime, in Waitakere

4. Fighting in Avondale where a firearm was reported.

5. Laser painting was used on occupants of a car after they refused to exit the vehicle. The vehicle was stopped after reports of a carjacking involving firearms. Carjacking folks. You ever been through that experience?

6. The tactic of laser painting was used on a man who was armed with a wheel brace and threatening the other man at the scene. He was immediately compliant and was arrested.

Let’s deal with reality. There are dangers where police may use any weapon illegally (hell - a 6 foot 7 inch cop beat an aboriginal to death by punching his liver in two [Australia - enquiry in progress ]. They don’t need a taser to inflict damage. Those people need to be brought to justice, end of story.

However, the vast majority of cops are good people that put their life on the line every day, and do their best for victims and people threatened by violence.

I see a self-righteous disconnect with reality here. The purposes of a trial is to evaluate how the tasers were used, and then discuss what other devices/options may have worked as well in those situations. Before we even discuss this, you guys are protesting and going on about how police brutality is the reason Hone stands before you today with brain damage.

All criminals are nice people, and they never hurt people.

Police should expect to get killed whilst on duty, and their family have to accept it is a hazard of the job.

Whilst you are defending scum that pull knives on people, the few times tasers have been used so far in NZ have been more than justified. And if they hadn’t, maybe a good cop would not be at home talking to his 5 year old daughter today (hey - if Hone can use that line…)

Whilst you imagine all the things that might go wrong with the Police having tasers, you pay little heed to all the things that DO go wrong when violent, amoral thugs use violence on undeserving people before they would even consider talking.

I’m all for reasoned discussion on monitoring the use of tasers, but most of you here sound just a little unreasoned.

Have I read this wrong? Is the Tasers thing a 100% no, no, no, never?

If you are so worried about this being a cover for keeping non-white dissidents under control, then campaign to ban the use of tasters at public demonstrations.

The thing that worries me the most is that “to arm the police is to arm the criminals”.

In effect, because of the actions of the Police in responding to a non lethal threat with Tazer, “we as a society” have just taken the next step towards lethal violence… (and each step taken will reduce our collective safety.)

Now “the crims” will have less hesitation in taking the NEXT step to protect themselves / retaliate …

and before long someone may die from heart failure with the shock from a a Tazer … and then …

(America here we come … open holsters at five paces!!)

I lived in various parts of North America for a while … it was scarey and thought provoking for a young Kiwi to see guns that were designed to shoot people casually worn on the hip in open holsters.

…I’m really pleased Keith Locke has put out a press release about the use of the Taser so far. A few days in to the trial, I couldn’t believe it when I saw this (article a bit old now):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3788893a11,00.html

Didn’t the police promote this weapon as an alternative to using guns?? And isn’t it pretty plain that these situations described were not the usual armed-offenders-squad gun-pulling situations??

Sure, great deterrent effect - pointing it at someone will probably get them to stop doing whatever illegal thing they’re doing, just as effectively as pulling a gun would. But that’s not the only consideration here.

Another consideration is the effect of the police’s choice of tactics on the citizenry. If we are scared as hell of ever stepping out of line because the police have wide power to zap us, then our quality of life is reduced. Moreover, important protest action that is in a grey legal area will be reduced if we’re scared of pretty serious physical pain as well as possible arrest. Lastly, we might be scared to undertake quite legal actions that might fall foul of a copper’s wrongful interpretation of the law - we all know our cops get it wrong, often, and we are much reduced in ability to stick up for our rights if we’re going to get shot by a flustered power-wielding cop (yes, there are plenty of bad eggs, as in every profession).

Police seem to have taken all of, umm, 1 week to implement a subtle change of tactics - from negotiation, with the implied threat of a big stick if the criminal REALLY goes nuts, to blatant threat of force. From “please can I convince you to do what I ask” to “do what I say or I’ll hurt you bad, full stop”.

I really don’t like that this might be the norm, for protestors not staying behind the line, for prisoners not unclenching their buttcheeks, etc. There is a massive difference between handling someone (with some risk of hurt) in order to get them to comply with the law, and threatening them with dignity-stripping, easily dealt out physical pain to scare them into complying. And I’m very scared the police will cite the magical deterrent effect when asking if the Taser’s use may be extended to non-compliant protester/prisoner situations, sometime in the future (they’ve already extended pepper spray use this way).

I’m highly mistrustful of the police, their competence, and their mindsets. Whether or not this lack of trust is justified, plenty of people share it, and that is a problem in itself quite separate from any shocking stuff they may or may not do.

Would be interested in any replies. Hmmm

And big ups to Keith Locke as usual, he often says what I’m thinking (a true ‘representative’)

phii(whoar.co.nz)

Probably true, also probably true that most support for tasers comes from people who are generally pro-police. It would be good if theywere more open about this.

If the pro-taser argument is that tasers are better than a bullet, it would make sense to equip armed offenders units with tasers, rather than every PC plod (I think this is the situation in the UK). Personally I wouldn’t trust a cop with a taser - because one thing I learned from my personal experience of being knocked about by a cop with a PR24 baton was that the police only a had the vaguest idea of the rules they were supposed to follow.

I’ve known two people who were pepper sprayed, one at an anti-GE protest which is a well-known incident, and one a young punk sprayed by a hyped-up young cop a Saturday night for not backing off far enough after being ordered to, even though he wasn’t being aggressive or violent in the slightest. So much for the police ability to follow their own rules.

“It makes me angry to think that I can feel safe here in Japan but not back in any large NZ city.”

Funny that - perhaps you are a bit paranoid or of a nervous disposition? Or give too much credence to newspaper reports? I’ve never felt particularly unsafe here (not counting places such as the back of police vans or the like).

katie:
I’ll look forward to that “common piece of pavement”!

But F, what about the fact that the National government of time supported the Khemer Rouge and refused to stop supporting them, even years after the enormity and horror of what they had been up to had been widely exposed?

http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/speech8860.html