http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/

PBS Frontline - Israel’s Next War (April 5th 2005)

They do not believe in peace talks. They do not want to share the land. They are well armed and are carrying out increasingly violent attacks, even targeting innocent civilians. They are members of Israel’s militant far right, and they are threatening to become Israel’s next big problem.

In “Israel’s Next War?” FRONTLINE goes deep inside the world of militant Jewish radicals who pose a grave new threat to Israeli security and, potentially, to the region. “The dream of these extremists”—to blow up the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, one of the most important holy sites in the Muslim world—”should give us sleepless nights,” says former Israeli Security Chief Avi Dichter. “Jewish terror is liable to create a serious strategic threat that will turn the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into a conflict between thirteen million Jews and a billion Muslims all over the world.”

The program also profiles two young men—Shlomo Dvir and Yarden Morag—who planned to set off a bomb at a Palestinian girls school just as hundreds of young students arrived in the morning. The timing was carefully designed to harm as many children as possible. “It was my idea,” says Shlomo Dvir in an exclusive interview from an Israeli prison. “Whoever gets hurt, gets hurt.” Most Israelis reacted with shock and horror when Dvir and Morag’s plan was revealed—but a small minority refused to condemn them.

Dvir and Morag’s bomb never went off—an Israeli policeman lucked onto their plot at the last minute—and the investigation led Israeli security officials to an underground of other radical settlers who helped with this attack and others. These settlers are part of a much larger group of far rightists in Israel—the Kahanists, who are members of Kach, the outlawed party of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, who rose to prominence in the 1980s with his message that nothing short of the expulsion of all Arabs from Jewish land will guarantee Israeli security.

Yet another disturbing piece of the puzzle ((((shudder))))

Cheers

actually i regard that story as crucial to this thread. just as thousands of french people move to new caledonia (kanaky) just in time to vote every time they have an independence referendum there, the constant influx of new jewish citizens into israel is what radicalizes the politics there. the newcomers create the demand, the manpower and the political majority for israel’s repression & expansionism. that is how they keep their iron grip - just bringing in more of the same. their grandchildren in turn may just want to live in peace & justice, but then more outsiders will move in to outnumber them in turn.
there isn’t an end in sight until unrestricted jewish immigration stops, and probably will be no relief for the palestinians unless all the jews who have moved their in their own lifetime are made to go back home.

Yes, it is interesting to hear the different viewpoints of Israelis, which are as varied as any country. It is just disappointing that the militartists, racist and warmongers have retained their iron grip on Israeli society for so long, with no end in sight. I believe that eventually it will change, but we are probably one or two decades away from peace based on true justice and democracy. The demonisation of “the enemy” seems to have succeeded with a majority of Israelis.

On of her great gripes with the Jewish culture in Palestine was the rejection of Yiddish in favour of Hebrew (she was a Yiddish speaker and kept dropping Yiddish words into the conversation on the presumption that anarchists all spoke a bit of the language - I later read that early 20th century English police had to learn it in order to infiltrate anarchist groups there).

Apparently (my history is weak here) there was quite an argument in the early days of Israel between the more secular and internationalist Yiddish speaking community and the more religious and Zionist Hebrew-speakers. Eventually the latter gained ascendency and actively suppressed Yiddish culture. Nowadays the language of what was a huge part of Jewish culture isn’t even an official language in Israel.

It’s interesting that the Israeli state attacked the more liberal Jewish culture and one wonders what shape a Yiddish-speaking Israel would have looked like.

Very interesting and important information. Thanks!

I have been thinking about that young Israeli chap a lot over the last week weeks and I believe that there are many Israelis who think like him and share the same anguish about the way their government is behaving.

I know there are active peace movements in Israel, just as there are in the USA, and I get the sense that they too are being shamed into silence in the same way because they too are afraid of being labelled “unpatriotic”.

I believe that people like him are the hope for the future of peace in Israel and we should be doing everything to support them gaining a stronger voice in the political landscape of their country.

Peace movements of the world unite!!!

andrew says”…if new zealand were invaded & conquered by a brutal foreign group who proceded to establish their own state on three quarters of new zealand (say, all of the south island & the lower part of the north island), & gradually expand further, then in 50 years if my kids (and god willing, me) are still calling for the abolition of that state, will we be called unreasonable, genocidal, fanatical?”

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

Something I also had been thinking of mentioning in this thread, so I’ll toss it in there now FWIW…. I had a very interesting conversation with a young Israeil chap last year, interested to hear first hand the feelings of an ordinary guy towards his governments Palestine policies and he was very clearly anguished by them.

In his opinion, and apparently there are many Israeli-born people who share it, there is a lot of resent towards the US involvement in Israeli affairs. He says that he blames the flood of settlers which emigrate from the USA as being the root cause of the government land-grabbing.

He said they come from the US with their greedy arrogant US attitudes, not interested in the Israeil/kibbutz way of life, wanting to build luxury homes in the desert with swimming pools and transform the regions into mini-Tuscon Arizonas, and expecting the Israeli army resources to protect them cos they settled over-the-boundary in the “wild frontier”.

And because they are generally really wealthy and have ties to wealthy influencial Jewish peeps in the US the government lets them get away with it. He said that is the hidden US connection that nobody likes to talk about and neither do they like to talk about the climate of resent that exists between them and 2nd/3rd/4th generation Israelis because it’s considered not OK to piss the Americans off.

He also was quite adamant that older generation Israeli peeps for the most part lived very peacefully with Palestinians, and employed them equally and had ordinary palestinians for friends. It is obvious that he regards the US settlers as a very big part of the domestic problem and I have been thinking a lot about this since.

I dunno exactly what this has to do with this thread, but I certainly welcomed the opportunity to have a real human conversation with an ordinary guy who was obviously open to looking at his own countries part to play in the conflict.

When I heard about the 30,000 IDF soldiers they were sending north last week I said a little prayer that this beautiful young man was not one of those conscripted

It certainly is NOT an “infantile tactic” to mirror another’s method of presentation, using opposing opinions/facts. For an aware person (receiver) it provides excellent feedback on the validity and effectiveness of his/her argument/opinion and its delivery.

Another’s lack of awareness is not your problem to solve …
Trying different methods to “get through” to him/her is!

Once I worked out what you were doing, I thought I might try it myself. (If those you were addressing didn’t “get it” other readers certainly did!)

It’s called “communicating” (… a very imprecise art!)

Thank you. And I acknowledge that some may see my resorting to this tactic as infantile, but I have only done so in response to the ahistorical name-calling contained in some posts.
the thing that gets me the most is this assertion that Israel is “democratic”, “modern”, “civilised”, while its neighbours are the opposite of such adjectives. To me, this is racism, pure and simple.

Sam and andrew,

Thanks for your replies. Well worth reading.