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	<title>Comments on: Governments away from home</title>
	<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/</link>
	<description>hopping along the corridors of power</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: eredwen</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16144</link>
		<dc:creator>eredwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16144</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Tochigi.

It says clearly what I suspected was the situation.

The question is ... what can we in Aotearoa/NZ do to help counter it?

eredwen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Tochigi.</p>
<p>It says clearly what I suspected was the situation.</p>
<p>The question is &#8230; what can we in Aotearoa/NZ do to help counter it?</p>
<p>eredwen</p>
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		<title>By: tochigi</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16096</link>
		<dc:creator>tochigi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jul 2006 04:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16096</guid>
		<description>Sam,

in japan, we're not talking about a "small business elite" when it comes to whaling. this is small money when seen from the world's second-biggest economy.
no, what we have is a minute "chauvenistic-nationalist political/buraucratic elite" that is able to portray japan as the victim of western cultural bullying, and use taxpayers' (my) money to bribe other countries into supporting their crusade.
japan's conduct of foreign policy (china, russia, n korea, whaling, peru, yasukuni, s korea, star wars.....) from go to whoa is a disaster for the people of japan.
anyone want to argue with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam,</p>
<p>in japan, we&#8217;re not talking about a &#8220;small business elite&#8221; when it comes to whaling. this is small money when seen from the world&#8217;s second-biggest economy.<br />
no, what we have is a minute &#8220;chauvenistic-nationalist political/buraucratic elite&#8221; that is able to portray japan as the victim of western cultural bullying, and use taxpayers&#8217; (my) money to bribe other countries into supporting their crusade.<br />
japan&#8217;s conduct of foreign policy (china, russia, n korea, whaling, peru, yasukuni, s korea, star wars&#8230;..) from go to whoa is a disaster for the people of japan.<br />
anyone want to argue with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16056</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16056</guid>
		<description>To come back to the start of this thread, I'd guess the Danish government's decision to ignore its populace and vote in favour of the resumption of whaling had a similar basis to that of the Japanese government - the interests of a small business elite outweighing the interests of the wider community.

In other words, we live in a society divided by class, and this needs to be understood. The word 'class' seems unfashionable these days, particularly in Green circles, which is a pity, as it defines present reality.

What do we do about it? Same as ever, struggle for proper democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To come back to the start of this thread, I&#8217;d guess the Danish government&#8217;s decision to ignore its populace and vote in favour of the resumption of whaling had a similar basis to that of the Japanese government - the interests of a small business elite outweighing the interests of the wider community.</p>
<p>In other words, we live in a society divided by class, and this needs to be understood. The word &#8216;class&#8217; seems unfashionable these days, particularly in Green circles, which is a pity, as it defines present reality.</p>
<p>What do we do about it? Same as ever, struggle for proper democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: eredwen</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16046</link>
		<dc:creator>eredwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16046</guid>
		<description>Sam:

"Is this something that arouses strong feelings or something that a narrow lobby of business interests is pushing for ... "

Exactly!

and, on a different scale in a different sphere: to see just how much influence "a narrow lobby of business interests" can have when those in the general population "barely give a damn"  ...  witness American oil 
interests and Iraq, Afghanistan etc 

So what do we DO now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam:</p>
<p>&#8220;Is this something that arouses strong feelings or something that a narrow lobby of business interests is pushing for &#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly!</p>
<p>and, on a different scale in a different sphere: to see just how much influence &#8220;a narrow lobby of business interests&#8221; can have when those in the general population &#8220;barely give a damn&#8221;  &#8230;  witness American oil<br />
interests and Iraq, Afghanistan etc </p>
<p>So what do we DO now?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16042</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16042</guid>
		<description>Other countries may be responsible for whaling or wanting it, but Japan does seem to be leading the political charge. Presumably the others are happy to stay out of the limelight on this issue.

One question about Japanese attitudes I have is: does the Japanese population actually care very much either way? Is this something that arouses strong feelings or something that a narrow lobby of business interests is pushing for, but which most people either mildly disapprove of, or mildly favour, but aren't going to make a fuss about?

 Opinion polls can be misleading if the reality is the latter - lot's of people mught say "yes" or "no" , though they barely give a damn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other countries may be responsible for whaling or wanting it, but Japan does seem to be leading the political charge. Presumably the others are happy to stay out of the limelight on this issue.</p>
<p>One question about Japanese attitudes I have is: does the Japanese population actually care very much either way? Is this something that arouses strong feelings or something that a narrow lobby of business interests is pushing for, but which most people either mildly disapprove of, or mildly favour, but aren&#8217;t going to make a fuss about?</p>
<p> Opinion polls can be misleading if the reality is the latter - lot&#8217;s of people mught say &#8220;yes&#8221; or &#8220;no&#8221; , though they barely give a damn.</p>
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		<title>By: naturevision</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16039</link>
		<dc:creator>naturevision</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 07:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16039</guid>
		<description>and Japan is doing "Scientific" whaling... quite a different kettle of fish, considering none of the science has been published in peer-reviewed Scientific journals, and all of the meat ends up on the blackmarket...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and Japan is doing &#8220;Scientific&#8221; whaling&#8230; quite a different kettle of fish, considering none of the science has been published in peer-reviewed Scientific journals, and all of the meat ends up on the blackmarket&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: eredwen</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16038</link>
		<dc:creator>eredwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16038</guid>
		<description>BJ 

Off the top of my head, without checking ...

In these current times, Norway and Iceland would be wanting to retain a right to historical small scale indigenous whaling.  Their vibrant democracies, given the attitudes of their people, would be most unlikely to allow anything more than that.

Norway was out there in the bigger, international waters, commercial stuff in the more recent past, but times and attitudes have changed a lot since then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BJ </p>
<p>Off the top of my head, without checking &#8230;</p>
<p>In these current times, Norway and Iceland would be wanting to retain a right to historical small scale indigenous whaling.  Their vibrant democracies, given the attitudes of their people, would be most unlikely to allow anything more than that.</p>
<p>Norway was out there in the bigger, international waters, commercial stuff in the more recent past, but times and attitudes have changed a lot since then.</p>
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		<title>By: bjchip</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16037</link>
		<dc:creator>bjchip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jun 2006 05:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16037</guid>
		<description>Actually looked and saw that Russia as well as Norway and Iceland want the cetacean's blood.  

If the whaling nations had their way there'd be no more whales within a decade.   At which point we could do what to them?    

Not a blessed thing.    

So the question of it being "just Japan" we should be targeting is a very good one.  There were a lot of countries that voted with the butchers.... and Japan has a lot to answer for in the long run if the species go to the wall. 

respectfully 
BJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually looked and saw that Russia as well as Norway and Iceland want the cetacean&#8217;s blood.  </p>
<p>If the whaling nations had their way there&#8217;d be no more whales within a decade.   At which point we could do what to them?    </p>
<p>Not a blessed thing.    </p>
<p>So the question of it being &#8220;just Japan&#8221; we should be targeting is a very good one.  There were a lot of countries that voted with the butchers&#8230;. and Japan has a lot to answer for in the long run if the species go to the wall. </p>
<p>respectfully<br />
BJ</p>
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		<title>By: david @ tokyo</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16034</link>
		<dc:creator>david @ tokyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16034</guid>
		<description>I'm waiting to see what the Government does about the problems with New Zealand's unsustainable ecotourism practices.

http://www.iwcoffice.org/_documents/sci_com/SCRepFiles2006/SCREPNEW-GPD.pdf

"The Committee agrees that there appears to be a significant impact from whalewatching and vessel traffic on this critically small bottlenose dolphin population. It recommends that the Government of New Zealand increases protection for this population and other bottlenose dolphin populations in Fiordland as a matter of urgency."

Ironic it is then that New Zealand continues to oppose the sustainable use of cetacean resources in other parts of the world where species have been more wisely managed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m waiting to see what the Government does about the problems with New Zealand&#8217;s unsustainable ecotourism practices.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iwcoffice.org/_documents/sci_com/SCRepFiles2006/SCREPNEW-GPD.pdf" >http://www.iwcoffice.org/_documents/sci_com/SCRepFiles2006/SCREPNEW-GP D.pdf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The Committee agrees that there appears to be a significant impact from whalewatching and vessel traffic on this critically small bottlenose dolphin population. It recommends that the Government of New Zealand increases protection for this population and other bottlenose dolphin populations in Fiordland as a matter of urgency.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ironic it is then that New Zealand continues to oppose the sustainable use of cetacean resources in other parts of the world where species have been more wisely managed.</p>
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		<title>By: eredwen</title>
		<link>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16028</link>
		<dc:creator>eredwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.greens.org.nz/2006/06/20/governments-away-from-home/#comment-16028</guid>
		<description>No don't do that phil !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No don&#8217;t do that phil !</p>
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