Come on you guys, enough blogging. Get out there with the petition !
It can just as well be signed N. of Cook Strait as S. Return to Nandor by
end Nov.

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ew..!..shut up..you’re talking forn porn…:)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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Now you’ve really polarised people, Phil! Evil corporations may have taken over much of the world’s food production, but if the Devil himself were to enter the industry, Marmite and Vegemite would be his products. Shudder!

And even if I liked avocado (which I don’t), there’s no way it could ever compare to the piquant bite of well-aged Gouda, a gooey, stinky slab of Gorgonzola or the sweet nuttiness of Parmigiano Reggiano freshly cut from a wheel. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a Quattro Formaggio pizza to order…

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no no even..thats too gluggy….try toast..a light smear of marmite/vegemite…a thick smear of avo…freshly squezed lemon juice over the top…and freshly ground black pepper….

try that and you’ll go “..cheese..?..bah!..:)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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Thanks for the advice Phil, i’ll stick with butter but yes, avocado with unpasteurised cheese, that would be nice!!
A point about fats is that if they are naturally raised and unaltered fats, they are very good foy you and don’t make you fat, quite the opposite. And that is one of the many good things about whole milk and whole milk products.
And also another reason why green principles are the only way forward.

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even said..”.. But you go back to your non fat margarine ..”

sorry..not this bunny rabbit…a pox on all of it..

( i suggest weaning yourself off using avocado as a crutch…:)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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well u don’t obviously Phil.
Because of the modern scare mongering of various industries, modern people eat the most, fat-free food compared to any other point in our evolution(or de-evolution) and are the most obese.
But you go back to your non fat margarine and glossy ads telling you how health smart you are, never mind the fact that if u put some margarine on the windowsill and leave it there all year not one insect will go near that marvellous fat-free food example you have.
Too not question authority when it has huge corporate profits behind it’s point of view is a bit silly.

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gee even…hadn’t thought of the consumption of even more full-fat dairy as being a solution to obesity…..who knew..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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One of the problems is that what’s deemed “healthy” by the authorities is completely corrupted by big business interests and the greed factor.
What would go a long long way to solving obesity and other health problems is if we(the people) were allowed/given access to buy whole milk products from ceritifed clean and organic suppliers.
Not from huge factories that do all kind of innovative techniques to rob us of the benefits of one of natures simply and time honoured foods. It shows how far gone we are down the corporate model of living that our common sense is so far removed from utilising whole milk, as has been done as long as we’ve been around.

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katie said..”..Much of the obesity amognst children today is related to the high levels of sugar, fat, and salt in foods marketed specifically as snacks or for school lunchboxes…”

yep…so it’s the manufacturers/pushers of this crap as villain mumber one….(solvable by a carrot/stick regulatory regime..the bastards will never do it voluntarily…)

ignorant parents…problem number two..(partly solveable by education..?)

willfully ignorant school committee/tuck shop operaters……who eagerly push this ill-health inducing crap through school tuck-shops…because it has a good ‘profit-margin’ for them…ggrrr!
at least one of them on each committee knows what they are doing..and how it sucks….and is damaging their children for such ignorant/shortsighted reasons…..

solution..?..education you’d think…but most possibly a regulatory regime..(make the willfull fools sell healthy food..?)

one thing is for sure..it cannot continue the way it is…eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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“the integrity of our diary industry is only a small part of the whole discussion”
Well i would say it’s a slightly misinformed discussion but truth is usually suppressed when it doesn’t serve status quo.
As Boot’s family will testify to as they are incorporating whole dairy products as a major part of their diet, not only is it better tasting but the state of health/strength and hapiness they enjoy as a result from it will be obvious.
Fact is, whole societies have existed on raw diary products and would give offerings to their gods every summer spring, becuase of the strength and vitality it provided their societies. And there is a lot of scientific evidence telling us what they all ready knew-not to mention the ill effects of pasteurised diary. But unless whole diary products can be co-opted by corporate interests-which it can’t- then the public will have to go without, as anything that fosters good health and independence is a threat.

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boot,
Nice post. reminded me of my childhood, and the cow on our farm for home milk supply. Fresh warm milk is indescribable to those who have never tasted it.

BJ -
sorry, mate, but there are effects of our factory dairy processes; lactose intolerance and dairy allergies are climbing in the current generation of children, never mind the genetically lactose intolerant asian immigrants.

Milk is a living food. Yoghurt is a living food. Sterilise them for consumption, and much of the goodness of amino acids and vitamins is lost (heat denaturation, anyone) I appreciate that vegans sidestep this issue by not consuming animal products, but for the general population, the integrity of our food sources is a concern.

Food safety is becoming an issue not of mere removal of contaminants, but also the problem of foods which have been so denatured as to have little nutritive value.

Try checking what’s in foods commonly eaten by children, available in your local s/market. Then compare with similar foods in an organic market (look, I’m being very restrained and not mentioning brand names….) you will find many less filler products in organic foods, especially the more processed foods. Healthy children grow sensibly on healthy food.

Much of the obesity amognst children today is related to the high levels of sugar, fat, and salt in foods marketed specifically as snacks or for school lunchboxes.

The integrity of our dairy industry is only a small part of the whole discussion.

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The figures quoted were for production of new bottles:
recycled glass vs virgin glass(i.e. sand plus all the other ingredients). So if you have 50% recycled glass you would be saving 10-15% of the energy required in the bottle making factory.
What was not included was the cost to mine and transport the sand and other ingredients vs the cost of smashing and transporting the glass – hey if they care to pick out all the broken glass from my bike tyres they can have it for free .

And Stuey, as you rightly point out, the actual costs for the bottle when in service (collecting is typically done on the back trip, washing is hot water plus caustic) compare very favourably with plastic bottles production costs (paid by the company) PLUS disposal costs (paid by society).

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go vegan..problem solved..rivers clean up…animals don’t suffer..everyone is healthier…

cows milk is actually designed for baby cows..

quite strange really that so many of us take it…

for a different perspective a peep into a culture that spurns the use of dairy products as a whole can be revelatory…eh..?…….

and i speak as a former serious cheese fan….get the muchies and half a block could be knocked off….i mixed the texture thing for a while..but that is long gone..

it’s quite strange how during the evolution of diet smells and tastes that once made me salivate..(ie bacon cooking..cooking cheese..are but two examples)..now evoke just the opposite reaction..

go figure….

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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nice research fastbike.

so “each 10% of cullet saves about 2 to 3% on energy costs of new glass.”

1) does this factor in the energy costs of collecting, distributing, washing etc.

2) This is not a particularly high energy saving, so one can easily see why the energy involved collecting and distributing the glass could mean that recycling actually wastes energy. However Meadowfresh already have the collection network and they are collecting the bottles for re-use anyway so this is not an issue.

Energy of collection and distribution is only an issue with pure recycling (and we knew that reuse trumps recycle anyway) and it is only an issue with inefficiently organised collection schemes – surely there are possibilities to make the whole process less inefficient to make recycling less energy intensive.

Presumably washing, smashing and melting glass is not high tech so it could be distributed rather than centralised and therefore the transport costs are less.

Always annoys me when anti-environmentalists quote studies that show that “environmental behaviour” is not actually environmental, when of course you need to think about the assumptions that the study uses and to view the figures as a benchmark to improve from to make it more environmental.

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Nice to see that David Benson Pope supports reusing milk bottles. Dairy farming however is depleting our countrys natural resources, they are farming on capital not on the natural surplus the land could provide. Their is no market pressure at current that could make dairy farmers adopt a truly sustainable way of farming. THe free market wont fix things because the long term ie 10,000 years can never be truly factored in

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Tomsk:

“The so-called “reprocessingâ€? (i.e. “washingâ€?) of milk bottles means that the same product can be reused many, many times (does anyone have any figures?) before it is downgraded enough to require actual recycling. ”

According to my sources at the Meadowfresh bottling plant, an average glass bottle will see about 30 trips. And after that it can be reduced to cullet (smashed) and used as feedstock in a new batch of bottles.

The US based Glass Packaging Inst says each 10% of cullet saves about 2 to 3% on energy costs of new glass.

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David Seymour

Oh yes, Lomberg. His work has been comprehensively debated and then dismissed – so much so – that it is very rare to see anyone now cite it to back their position.

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David Seymour: Please. Surely this “the answer is the market, I don’t care what the question is” line is getting old.
Repeat after me: The cost of a product is the cost to produce and sell it PLUS the cost to dispose of or reuse it.
Graham Hart pays for the first bit. We pay for the second, through taxation. Yet he gets all the profits.Why is this? We paid for half of the cost of the product!
There is every incentive to minimise the cost of production. Under the current economic system there is no incentive to reduce the cost of disposal.. because someone else pays. If you can’t grasp this simple concept, well, you should go and work for ACT… oops, too late.

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Even – Agree your thoughts re pasteurised dairy products. I’ve recently started buying milk straight from the horses mouth as it were…delivered lukewarm (i.e as fresh as fresh can be) from a certified organic farm, a good couple of cm’ layer of rich cream on top (for my kids to argue over…) re-used glass bottles, $1 per litre cheaper than organic alternative carton milk from a mainstream producer, absolutely no comparison. this is the way nature intended it to be, milk never tasted so good!

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