by frog
Further to my post just before.
One thing I can say about these last few remarkable days, the massive public appreciation of what Rod did and stood for has made me feel really proud to be Green. It is a feeling I intend to hold on to, regardless of how toxic Parliament gets.
Published in Parliament by frog on Sat, November 12th, 2005
Tags: environment
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Yes, I agree. I am not in a physical position to be active, but I do my best to spread the good word and to support those who are able to stand up.
I remained stunned and saddened by Rod’s moving on. I knew he was a powerful leader and mentor, but the outpouring has shown even more than I knew.
Even my brother, a DOC manager, had tears in his eyes when he broke the news to me. I am proud to be green. Joy.
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Well said!
I totally agree.
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Keep holding you head high Frog. You are definitely the good guys in parliament.
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Yes, there’s an amazing groundswell of public sympathy for Rod and the values he epitomized.
I sense this may be washing over into recognition that the Green values are worth a second look, that we’re not the demons Peters and Dunne have painted for the media, and that a platform of broad public support is emerging to see some of Rod’s dreams come to fruition.
These are challenging times for all Greens to take these opportunities forward and the period before the next AGM needs careful management.
In this respect, I’m disappointed that Norman Russel hasn’t even waited a week after Rod’s death before publicly announcing his campaign to replace Rod has begun.
It makes us look like other parties, chasing power and baubles before the flowers on the grave have even wilted.
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yep, reactions from friends of leftish persuasions have been very kind, many have expressed their sadness to me as their first greeting when bumping into me around campus.
and a funny thing happened to me in the supermarket on Thursday;
as I blundered around, kids in tow, much later than I usually do, I noticed a woman catch my eye; she was elderly and bretheren, she looked up at my Green beanie, down to my face, blushed and turned away.
Extraordinary, first time one of them has looked me in the eye in years. Only time I’ve ever seen one blush in public. They usually completely ignore people who are not submissively presented (I have short hair, & was wearing jeans and a Thursdays in Black non-violence hoody, so “bad” in their “outward appearances” scale)
Perhaps there has been some soul searching with regard to their opinions of their leadership, or perhaps it was just one compassionate, humble, old woman. Either way, it made me feel a little less unhappy about the way that particular stoush occurred.
I still feel that the actions of the bretheren were pivotal to muddying the waters at the end of the campaign, and that National were far more culpable in that event than they admitted; and I’m sure that the investigation will bear that out. I regret that so much time and energy has been taken up by those people, to promote views that are not just false, but manipulative and deceitful as well, not to mention the arrogance of trying to tell voters how to vote, when they forbid their own people any enfranchisement.
Rod was so disappointed in the way that was handled, as co-leaders he and Jeanette showed integrity and dignity in the face of coercion and lies. They came off looking so much better than their adversaries. That is probably the image that most non-Green NZ’ers will remember him for, announcing the Police inquiry into that pamphlet, not in a gloating way, but dignified, decent and sad that politics in NZ has come to this – “anonymous” smear campaigns.
Yes, Nandor has a right to call the environment at Parliament toxic; he’s in the firing line for snide comments from detractors, and so are all the MP’s and their staff, answering phones, e-mails and letters. Plus there’s the daily contact with loose cannons like Rodney Hide, who talk first and engage their brain last.
Kudos to all those who work effectively despite that atmosphere.
Rod wouldn’t want us to stop the progress of the Greening of NZ, that only plays into the hands of our detractors. Each one of us who works in an area of green activism has that challenge, every time we draw breath to speak to policy issues.
There must be one more MP, there must be a co-leader; these are constitutional requirements; there is no requirement for one person to do both jobs, Rod was just an exceptional person who managed to fulfill those roles. Russ has been a strong and useful activist, staffmember, campaign manager, and candidate during the time I’ve known him; perhaps those who don’t know him might bear that in mind before they criticise someone who is acting in consideration of a consensus of green membership opinion.
arohatinonui ki nga kakariki katoa, na keri
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katie..
“..There must be one more MP, there must be a co-leader…… Russ has been a strong and useful activist, staffmember, campaign manager, and candidate during the time I’ve known him; perhaps those who don’t know him might bear that in mind before they criticise someone who is acting in consideration of a consensus of green membership opinion….”
ew..!..it’s true..people are campaigning for norman(who?) as co-leader….norman is competing for norman as co-leader…how tacky….(russ..!)..
and while we’re at it..if you want to open that can of worms….i’m afraid that going on the lame-arse non-existant election campaign the greens ran this time..that he must surely take some responsibility for..(he was campaign manager wasn’t he..?)…what is it he has actually done…?.
.we are scratching our heads here….(he is an ex-aker..we know of what we speak..)
he’s an apparatchik…..a beaurocrat….skilled at fitting in/working the system/people(hello katie)…..skills that are needed….but co-leader..?..getoutahere…!
(ahem…apart from anything else..he’s an ‘aussie blow-in”..:)..i think we’d rather have a ‘hungarian blow-in’..:)
but seriously……
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I am surprised by the depth of my own feelings on the passing of Rod Donald, and the huge reaction in the so-called mainstream New Zealand. I guess it just shows us how unusual and special he was and how much he achieved in his short time on this earth. We must remember that each of our times here is limited and we must make the most of the opportunities and relationships that come before us. Tomorrow may be too late. Go in peace Rod and thank you for everything.
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Another reason to be proud to be Green is the huge amount of talent and dedication amongst the candidates and others.
Any other party would be over the moon to have so many great people to consider as a new co-leader, with so many different strengths to offer.
Out of the other non-MP “First XV” candidates, apart from Russel Norman, I’ve briefly met Steffan Browning, David Clendon, Jon Carapiet, Roland Sapsford, and they all strike me as people who’d make great co-leaders. I’m sure there are also people who weren’t up in the 2005 list who’d be stunning.
It’s going to be a hard decision, but that just shows what a dedicated and skilled bunch of people make up the Green Party. We should be proud of them all.
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DR said: “I’m disappointed that Norman Russel hasn’t even waited a week after Rod’s death before publicly announcing his campaign to replace Rod has begun.”
Russel has done nothing of the sort.
The media have picked him as their favourite, but in doing so they have simply been updating what they were saying at the time that the Party List was announced earlier in the year. Then they criticised us for not promoting more *new faces*, and seemingly refused to believe that the party hierarchy couldn’t have stepped in and imposed its will on the membership to get such a result.
This speculation has placed enormous pressure on Russel at a time when, like all of us, he has been focussed on Rod. He may or may not be the man for the job, but he’s not the one putting his name forward this last week.
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Norm Russ/Russ Norm it’s confusing, we at least need a co-leader whose name we can remember:)
Like Phil, what I do remember is a poorly run campaign, with poor campaign materials, targeted at the wrong voters and with a result that’s no different from the 5.3% the old Values Party achieved 30 years ago.
Lots of good people, with good hearts tried to overcome these internal obstacles, for which Russel must take ultimate responsibility. The materials have his name on them!
It’s a new voter, social, cultural, economic, environmental and political landscape out there.
Look at Germany and the new grand-coalition. How long before Labour and National do the same here?
Greens must be a magnet to bring together the support of a broad range of people to progress visionary Green policies that make sense in today’s world.
The new co-leader has to recognize and accept these shifts and help anchor the policies in a safe harbor on the political spectrum.
Not drive us onto the rocks of the hard left, which is where Russel would have us go. To our collective detriment.
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We as Greens will have several months to sort out who will be willing to stand for the role of Male Co-Leader and what attributes each person would bring to the role.
I would much prefer members of the Party (and interested observers) to wait and see, and not go into misinformed (?) discussion on this forum at this (still very sad for many) time.
I can think of several excellent men, from different parts of AotearoaNZ among whom I personally would have great difficulty in choosing !!
How many other political parties could truthfully say the same ?
eredwen
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Back in the States I was a Democrat. With FPP and some really nasty choices to be made and votes not always counted I couldn’t give any support to a party that could ONLY elect Republicans. That’s what the US system does to the smaller parties, and its pretty obvious to most people… which is why Greens in the US are so unsuccessful. First they have to change the system, like Rod did here. A lesson the Shrub is hammering home in the worst ways possible.
Here however, once I learned I had the right to vote and how MMP worked I WAS free to choose. I have to say that in this party I have finally found something I can be proud to be a part of and not have to apologize (well not TOO much) for being a part of it. I like the feeling. Not something many Americans get to feel anymore… quite a novelty.
I have no knowledge yet, of people in the party who might be co-leaders. In this I am going to trust the rest of you. If I cannot cast a well considered vote I will not muddy the water.
I do hope that the pragmatic, the practical the REALISTIC side of the party that Rod helped to promote will be represented well by the new co-leader whoever he is.
respectfully
BJ
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It is indeed wonderful (and fitting for a party mourning someone as great as Rod) that the Green Party members have kept their comments so clean and positive. Truly, if there is any enemy to the values we hold, it has to be cynicism and defeatist attitudes, not other parties themselves.
And that they don’t feel the need to bite back, even when the other parties have begun their bullying again while they are still upset at their loss. Hold your heads high Green MPs, you are above that sort of behaviour and that is what makes you such wonderful representatives.
Also, please don’t blame Russel for the poor result: The polls told us the picture in that: many Green supporters swung to Labour in order to make sure that they and not National would be in the negotiating position. It probably wasn’t a smart move, (voting for the greens might have avoided the situation we have now of a coalition of “centrist” parties) but it’s what happened. While the campaign could have run better, I don’t think that’s what hurt us so much as the apathy of the media to our causes, and their championing of hand-to-mouth tax cuts. Ah, if only the press were truly free to report everything.
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Meanwhile; back at the ranch:
http://www.ameinfo.com/71519.html
“Kuwait’s biggest field starts to run out of oil
It was an incredible revelation last week that the second largest oil field in the world is exhausted and past its peak output. Yet that is what the Kuwait Oil Company revealed about its Burgan field.”
“The peak output of the Burgan oil field will now be around 1.7 million barrels per day, and not the two million barrels per day forecast for the rest of the field’s 30 to 40 years of life, Chairman Farouk Al Zanki told Bloomberg.
He said that engineers had tried to maintain 1.9 million barrels per day but that 1.7 million is the optimum rate. Kuwait will now spend some $3 million a year for the next year to boost output and exports from other fields.
However, it is surely a landmark moment when the world’s second largest oil field begins to run dry. For Burgan has been pumping oil for almost 60 years and accounts for more than half of Kuwait’s proven oil reserves.”
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Katie, DR, Phil…
As a member I am uncomfortable with the public discussion of possible leaders. If you wouldn’t put it in a letter to the paper it shouldn’t be going here, in my opinion.
This is a public forum and it is a Green parliamentary forum, not a Party forum.
I’d suggest that any members who wish to start this sort of thread should be going to the Members forum (http://forum.greens.org.nz/). If you don’t know your username / password – you can register (top and centre of initial screen).
Green Party discussion on this needs to be open and internal. It isn’t appropriate or useful to have that internal discussion in public.
Here, we can’t tell who is a member or not, which leads to possibilities of non-members entering the debate – with good or bad intentions. Don’t rise to any bait.
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Logix – are you peeking over Frogs shoulder?
respectfully
BJ
(who posted the link to Frog about a day ago)
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Thanks for reminding us Logix !
Watching my various neigbours’ behaviours in all sorts of ways, even a rudimentary awareness that some changes are needed seems to have escaped them (almost all) …
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Well said Pip!
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pip-
I apologise for any offense given, my intention was not to do such a thing.
Given that the media have already broken the story, I didn’t think that comment was going to be coming across as a surprise to anyone. None of the attributes I mentioned were unknown to media, either, as they all represent publicly held and acknowledged facets of our campaign manager’s career.
I accept your recommendation about member’s fora.
I just haven’t used them because the one time I did register myself, I lost my password sometime and haven’t been back into the fora since. ( standard security; login with wrong password, and can’t get back in to site….. bane of my life, when I use separate passwords for different things. I should learn mnemonics or something, or just reduce my security criteria and write the damn things down)
thanks for the timely reminder, katie
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There is now a thread established on the Green Forum for Green members to discuss the Co-Leadership succession internally.
I agree with Frog & Pip that this discussion, as far as Green members are concerned, should be kept out of the public arena. Non-members can say their bit here, subject to the moderation rules, and those of us in the Greens will take note of them. But members should be using the Forum to discuss this matter internally to the Party.
You need your Green Party membership id to access Green Forum – for those who have not been there, is is the same id you use to access the members-only section of the website. If you are a member and do not have a membership website id go to http://www.greens.org.nz/members/register.asp.
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katie there is a password reset tool
http://www.greens.org.nz/members/remind.asp
it automatically changes your pwasswod to a new random one and then you can login and change the password back to what you like. There is a link to it from all the login screens – or at least there should be! If you spot a login screen that hasn’t got a link to the “I forgot my password tool” then email webmaster@greens.org.nz with the address of that page.
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I originally raised the issue of Russel’s candidacy for co-leader AFTER the media [I watched it on TV] broke the story.
As Russel was clearly prepared to make his ambitions public before making Green party members aware of them, I thought it fair and reasonable to use a publicly available forum to discuss the merits of his candidacy.
The issue was [and is] clearly in the public arena.
I’m glad there’s now a members only thread for us as another option with which to further the discussion.
I’m also aware that needing to appoint a new co-leader is a rare event for us, meaning we may not always have electronic systems in place for party discussion straight away.
Frog has created a welcoming space here:)
When making our decision, we need to be aware of broad views outside the party towards the candidates. We don’t exist in a vacumn. That’s why non-party contributors have valid views to offer to the debate.
This forum is refreshingly transparent. Long may it remain so.
Finally, we may be supporters, but we’re not sheep.
So long as our discussions respect Frog’s policies and Green values and ethics, I believe any topic relating to the party, its MPs, its officials, structures, actions and policies should also enjoy vigorous and informed debate here.
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“As Russel was clearly prepared to make his ambitions public before making Green party members aware of them,” where is your evidence of this? Maybe Russel had nothing to do with it?
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Don’t shoot the messenger:)
Evidence?
There was a very brief item on TV [TV3 I believe] news, including footage, and reporter comment that he had decided to contest the position.
Presumably the item ran with his knowledge?
I haven’t seen any denials.
Maybe the news item was wrong? I think others have seen the same item?
I’m sure Russel can quickly clear the matter up?
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