by frog
If there is one place I would like to be a fly on the wall today it would be Don Brash’s office.
I mean just how big a carrot is he willing to offer Winston?
If reports today are to be believed Peters has already agreed to sign up with Labour.
But reportedly a meeting is planned today with Dr Brash – presumably for a counter offer to be made.
Will Peters take the money or the bag? What’s in the bag?
And I have to ask … just what is going on with the Exclusive Brethren?
Published in Campaign by frog on Fri, October 14th, 2005
Tags: environment
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
O please let it be the Prime Ministerialship!
Dons been bent so far backwards in the last few weeks with his capitulation over all things Maori i woundt be surpriaed if he comes full circle and offers winston the top job
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Frog:
With all due disrespect, I’d rather be a fly on the wall of the Green caucus room when you find out how much of Winnie’s wish list you’re going to have to ckoke down. Now that Nandor’s got some time on his hands, perhaps he can source a reliable supply of organic, hemp-based lip balm for Rod and Jeanette.
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Don still needs the Maori party votes remember. He’d have to offer a big carrot to them as well. It would be incredible if Pita Sharples and Tariana Turia were to support Don Brash, who ran on a two pronged campaign of tax cuts and putting uppity Maori in their place, but then stranger things have happened in politics (the Hitler Stalin pact for starters).
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What, with National’s tax cuts and what Winny wants, this country is going to be bankrupt if they were gain power!!!
I suspect that this is going to be a large stumbling block (amongst many others) in any attempt by the right to form a government.
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Journalists are obviously being asked by editors to suck stories out their thumbs.
There is no news other than Labour is making a firm deal with Winston.
The rest is dream stuff.
Helen has gone for the best option available i.e. a firm deal with Winston, back up stability from the Greens and no dependence at all on the potentially very flakey Maori Party.
United Future are the real losers in this,for which I am duly grateful.
Brash has never had an alternative to form a government.
I find the notion that the Brethren would get a hearing from Winston as truly risible. Nobody who knows much about either the Peters family or that bunch of mean spirited bigots party could see much likelihood of marriage in that area.
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The only part of Winston’s published wish list that I have a major problem with is his attitude toward migrants and refugees.
What is it with the EB crowd? Non voting isolationists yet they want to interfer in the govt forming process?
Perhaps Winston could be Speaker for the LPG govt. Lots of attention and importance yet out of harms way. Just a thought. Joy.
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bring it on ..i say….another election within 12 months would see nandor back in, and the greens with the 9-10% they had till the big nat scare….and would see national knackered for the forseeable future…and unfortunatly for their supporters and democracy in nz..the maori party would also be knackered/hopelessly compromised…..
but it won’t happen…for all the above reasons and more…
but i don’t really see a hell of a lot to gloat about for the greens to be tied into a government with peters….phrases like ‘kiss of death’ and lie down with dogs and get fleas’ keep popping up into my mind…
(boy..those policy gains had better be pretty bloody good..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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er what is it with the Brethren? d’ya think you could link to a story about what they have done for those of us who aren’t obsessed with the latest political gossip and so don’t know what yer on about.
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Craig:
None of us like the prospect of working with NZ First, should that be the situation that arises.
That said, there are certainly areas we have agreeance on:
1) NZ First isn’t very amenable to the idea of tax cuts (hence why Peters’ working relationship with Brash would be uncomfortable to say the least).
2) NZ First is opposed to free trade as well.
3) Like us, NZ First policy is to raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.
(And these are but a few…)
Your incessant doomsday predictions never cease to amuse me.
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dudes that craig he get so witty and fun like he almost good than me but not quites, now fwwog, fwog, see today i sack Judd, yes president ACT asked for resignation with a little teensy mention of, well violets really, she donts want to see in newspaper what we have on hers, should get resignation by xmas,
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What’s with it with the EBs, joy asks.
My view (and some ex-EB’s agree with me) is that they see the Greens as delaying the world’s rush to Armageddon, and the Second Coming of Christ.
Therefore, oppose the Greens!
Which means that they do understand the dangers to the world and embrace them.
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I’d like to hear all on the conversations that are going on right now because I bet several are just as interesting as the Nat-NZF dialogue and because without knowing the larger context your interpretation would undoubtedly be incorrect.
The reports that a deal is almost ready have been coming out daily this week. So far they have all been incorrect and it is fairly clear that they are originating from the Labour party to pressure the other parties.
Finally, how are the Greens feeling about their slice of the cake? I mean just one fewer MP than NZF and you are getting maybe a tenth of the policy dollar value that Winston asking for. A disappointing reward for 3 years of loyalty.
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greengage:
The mental pictures your post evokes are wonderful … much better than the dreary reality of the EB world view.
I have a “sister” who left her Exclusive Bretheren family as a young adult and, disowned by them, and as a stranger to us, rented a flat owned by my parents. Our family supported her emotionally through her total rejection by her kin, and we have remained close ever since. She has attempted contact with her family several times, but without success.
So much for “the love of God”.
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May I point everyone to a website conducted by ex-EBs:
http://peebs.net/
and on the topic of the last days:
http://peebs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=896
I should have said that “at least one ex-EB agrees with me”…
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Sorry everyone, forgot the link to the EB story, it’s there now. Frog
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James P:
One Green’s thoughts and feelings:
Disappointing, yes. Unfair, yes! … (bugger it.)
However New Zealanders will be watching (including members of the Labour Party).
The contrast with the behaviour of others will be noticed by many and remembered. (The Green image will certainly not suffer for that!)
Greens MPs will remain Green, cooperative, hard working, visible, and focused on what is best for Aotearoa NZ. They will show that they have their own “brand” and will not “morph” expediently into something else … and they will produce noticeable results.
The Greens are now acccepted as “part of the landscape” and continue to gain respect..
Tomorrow is another day …
eredwen
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Some very good points discussed but no one has really answered the question of the day.
“How big is Don’s carrot?”
Frog you may want to re-word the title……
Cheers Toa
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Don has definitely discouraged talk about that area…
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he wears big baggy jim-jams..(is he trying to hide something…?.yes..another pun..enjoy..)…i know that..but that’s all i know….
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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RedGreen wrote:
Your incessant doomsday predictions never cease to amuse me.
I reply:
Well, I think you better start getting real about the agenda he’s bringing to the table. Don’t get me wrong: I’m very happy if Clark will buy him off by nudging forward Winston First’s anti-immigrant agenda (which is the twin of the economic nationalism you’re so hot for) and billions in uncosted and unsustainable tinkering with Super and this Golden Age Card nonsense. I just don’t think it’s going to be good for any of us who are really going to pay the cost.
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PLEASE don’t ask me to think about Don’s carrot.
Today is already crammed with other seriously off-putting topics.
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I just think there are more grounds for the Greens to work with NZ First on than with United Future. Ideally I would like to see the Maori Party there instead… But we don’t live in an ideal world (yes us Greenies are pragmatists, believe it or not), and I think we have to make do with what’s been presented to us.
And yes, I’m concerned about what role Peters will have on immigration. But between him and Peter ‘when I lose my temper I erupt like Krakatoa’ Dunne, Peters is the lesser of the two evils (in my books anyway).
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“If reports today are to be believed Peters has already agreed to sign up with Labour.”
Hasn’t the media been reporting for the last two weeks that a deal was about to be announced?
As far as National compromising their policies, I have it on very good authority that they have NO intention of doing that. They know that their credibility is on the line.
If Winnie and Helen do get it on, that can only be good for National’s chances at the next election, though none of us will like what happens to NZ in the meantime.
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I think National should offer Winston just enough so that Labour has to keep putting their price up. But not quite enough that Labour can’t match it, and that he might go with National!
And others have said, I’d be more worried if I were you about the size of Winston’s carrot and the fact that it appears he is bludgeoning you with it.
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Joy : Winsome as Speaker! Cracker of an idea. I believe he’s been thrown out of the House more times than anyone else living. Poachers make the best gamekeepers.
David : “bludgeoning” is not quite the word… was it b***ering” you were thinking of?
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To answer Toa’s question — Don’s carrot is big enough that, should he form a government, he would screw all of New Zealand.
In other news, since this is the Green blog, I’d be interested if any of the Green’s who deserted the party in droves to vote Labour (if the 9% post-election poll number is to be credited) are feeling buyer’s remorse since what they end up getting is Winston Peters vetoing Green ministers (again, if reports pan out).
Are the Green votes on the verge of becoming Labour entitlements? Are the Greens gonna become ever-loyal ombudsman who, at the end of the day, fall into line, even though they’re gonna get kicked down.
Greens have played this election sort of like the geek who has the (bio-diesel) car and gives the popular kid a ride to school one day, thinking they”re now part of the in-crowd. No need to say how this little teenage passion play usually ends.
Last time I voiced these concerns, Frog hopped up and down on my neck saying Jeannette and Rod knew how to manage the party to avoid being made irrelevant. Given the way things are shaping up and the margin that stands between Greens and oblivion, I sure hope so.
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David Farrar:
Unfortunately I have to agree with your “take” on the situation.
Whatever else, watching the (probable) new Government settling in will be very interesting.
I believe that the Green MPs will operate in their usual professional and efficient way and make the most they can out of a potentially very stressful and difficult situation. They will have the support of their Labour/Progressive colleagues, their excellent staff members and the Greens in general, but I don’t envy any of them the tasks they have ahead.
eredwen
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From the Herald :
The other problem associated with a ministerial post for Mr Peters is whether the Green Party would support Labour if it were not offered a similar post.
What I want to know, is why Rod and Jeanette aren’t talking to Don too. If he can cave to the MP on the foreshore and the Maori seats, he’d probably promise us an organic NZ by 2020 (I mean, well, maybe his carrot is organic or something.)
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At the end of the day, it’s going to be an interesting three years… Parliament will really come into its own, and the quality of the legislation coming out will probably be all the better for it… that is, if MPs are capable of more than just bloc-voting up or down, depending on whose idea it was.
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alistair:
“b***ering” is definitely the better word!
(Thanks for that comment. I needed to laugh!)
eredwen
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Oh NO! This is too much for one day!
First we get asked to think about Don Brash’s carrot and now Alister wants us to consider the properties of Winston’s carrot.
Maybe that is OK for you males, but from a female point of view I find it SERIOUSLY off-putting.
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No, it’s still Don’s we’re talking about.
Without wishing to cause any offense, Eredwen… I see it as dark orange and softening, starting to get wrinkly due to age… past its use-by date. With maybe little green tufts sprouting around the base.
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alistair:
I was told that “the real work of Parliament is done in Select Committees”, and that “out of sight of the media unexpected allies can be found”.
Hopefully, the hard work done there, and the alliances formed, will carry through to the actual voting in the House.
After a while the media interest will be less intense so hopefully “playing to the media” will die down and some good legislation passed.
(Sounds good in theory!)
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Alistair:
That is too much detail !
I can’t write any more … I’m laughing too much.
eredwen
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Well isn’t this a turn-up for the books…
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is considering a proposal sent to him by National, inviting him to help to form a centre-right Government.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10350403
unbefrigginlievable.
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Oh I dearly hope he takes up that offer…
Just imagine. Peters, Dunne, Turia, Hyde around the cabinet table, presided by a beaming Don Brash…
Gone by Christmas lunchtime.
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I *do* like the peebs.net 404 page. That’s great!
“The page you seek is no longer in fellowship with us.”
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joy, eredwen,
thank you for the compassion you show for those of us who have lost friends/family/life as we knew it by being excommunicated.
My life was lived for 20 years amongst “open” ex-EB’s, who behaved as if still EB when anyone was defined as “transgressing”; I have had experiences in the last 6 years that are equal to those of your sister, eredwen. Your words made me weep, as I remembered the crushing isolation of my first weeks and months, learning to trust and accept new friends, and build a new image of myself as a worthy person.
This is the stress that we live under when we see headlines in the daily papers suggesting that EB’s have some kind of direct line into the Opposition, and that they may have some formative power to create a government.
Those people despise the majority of NZ, and would consign us all to hell if they gained power. Any Green philosophy is anathema to them; the “love of God” does not admit any acceptance of respect for diversity in human experience.
I have received many humbling experiences in being taught compassion by young people over the past 6 years, and truly I have regretted the brainwashing of my youth which made me a very smug & arrogant person in my 20′s, as I then felt that I had the best of everything and that my faith made me “chosen”, far above the “normal” experience of pagans or other christians.
Thank you to all the buddhist, communist, socialist, anarchist, feminist, catholic, anglican,agnostic, atheist, vegan, activists and couch-hugging TV-slobs, who all contributed to my education after I was born again into the world after my ex-communication.
I am now, and will continue to be, a peace activist without discrimination of race, sex, gender, ethnicity or religion, as I have seen those discriminations rip lives apart. I still believe in a higher spirit, but that this is a function of our consciousness as humans, and not an externality that must be denominised and sectarinated into partitions that create conflict to the point of death.
thanks again, katie :-}
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alistair:
What is that old saying …
There are ‘lies’, ‘damn lies’, and ‘politics’.
Winston is the archetype of the inveterate politician … He has always represented Winston.
Maori Party are quite rightly “doing the best that they can for their people”.
so National/Act are “giving it a go … ”
(Peter Dunne will be feeling important again!)
Greens are abiding by their Green principles (and I, for one, wouldn’t want them to do anything else.)
ditto Progressive(s)
(I am left wondering whether the Government we get will rest on:
“All is forgiven Tariana. Please come home”
“OK … Seeing you said it so nicely … All is forgiven Helen”
But then I have had the experience of being the mother of adolescents/young adults …)
The “will of the peolpe” is thus unfolding before us!
and at least it is a whole lot more interesting than FPP
Your move Labour!!
eredwen
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alistair:
Having said the above, I agree wholeheartedly that your picture of a National led cabinet is very appealing … in a perverse way.
However, a serious side effect might be loud screaming from the masses for a return to FPP.
Thus I still prefer the idea of a warming between HC and TT (which, in itself, is an appealing picture… )
eredwen
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KATIE:
THANK YOU FOR THAT REPLY!!
Our “Exclusive Brethern escapee” was lucky enough to meet a wonderful, relaxed and friendly young man who came from a large, closely knit family with big hearts. They became her family, her mother-in-law became her mother, etc My parents were her parents at her wedding and became grandparents to her children …
In older times, when people died younger, this secenario would have been a common occurrence. It is now unusual for a person to be without family and that must make it harder. (Leaving the EB would have been regarded as your death by them … I guess you have been forced to apply the same logic? But that doesn’t make it easy!)
You obviously have become a really vital and important contributor to our society. Do you think about what your life would be like if you had stayed?
Regardless of what leverage the EB think they might have with any political party here, I don’t believe that the voting public would stand for such interference. Maybe they could affect the results once, but under MMP, never again. We are a small society and secrets will get out.
On the other hand the American voting system (antedeluvian in my view) might lend itself to such interference. I suspect it is already being interfered with … and not just by the EB!
Very best wishes for a wonderful and fulfilling life! and thank you for your reply.
eredwen
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so..have i got this right..?..
our best-case scenario at the moment is a peters dominated labour government..with the greens in minor roles…?
are we all adopting the ‘ready’ position….?
imnsho the greens going ahead with this could well draw the curtain on this incarnation of the political wing of the environmental movement in this country…
but if that is the case..there wil be another..
and those who rail against those who voted labour because of well-founded fears of what national would do should reflect on the fact that those waverers made a considered/rational political decision..and that if they had not ..that yes, we would have more green mps ..(come back nandor..i think we need you..)…and an actite/national government in power….
save your venom for the thousands of those who pissed their votes up against the wall by voting for the likes of the aotearoa legalise cannabis party..they are the true boofheads/idiots/fuckwits/wasters of this election campaign..they..their leader..and organisation.. deserve universal derision/contempt..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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eredwen,
“Do you think about what your life would be like if you had stayed?”
every time I look at my vibrant, healthy daughters, who are excied about life and the opportunities ahead of them, I am glad I left; it would have been torture to have compromised, stayed, and watched them be destroyed by a repetition of my experience.
My life is also much more vibrant, but it is of neccessity not so quickly lived as theirs
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Katie:
That is good to know! Thank you.
eredwen
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isn’t frog being a very quiet frog..these last couple of days…?..i wonder why…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Frog has left the green party.
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… office for the weekend, but will be back bright and early tomorrow!
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I think it’s going to be a very challenging 3 years regardless of what happens with the negotiations. And the left have a big job on their hands to renew, and rebuild to ensure a Centre-left (rather than a Centre-left-right) government in 2008.
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I am not sure if this has been brought up, but is anyone feeling a little betrayed by Tariana Turia and the MP? In all fairness I didn’t vote for them, however I (along with my family) were happy to see them elected, now I am not so sure. Do you think they will be returned next term?
I think I mentioned somewhere that National +MP wouldn’t be so scary but I have been hearing things about the mutual desire to unbundle (i.e privatise?) education and I am increasingly concerned. Any thoughts?
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Clara:
Obviously the Maori Party isn’t just Tariana and Peter, and they seem to have a really democratic, consultative system.
Their voters would normally tend towards Labour. However, the Seabed and Foreshore legislation was, in my opinion, a misuse of power that showed an enbarrassing (for me as a Pakeha) disrespect for and distrust of Maori. I’m angry about it … and can only imagine how the affected Iwi and Hapu feel.
I say “good on them” for doing the rounds, finding out what is and isn’t on offer, and showing that they ARE autonymous. (I hear they have given Don Brash a much needed basic lesson on Maori and early Pakeha history.)
I’m fervently hoping they will decide to support a Labour led Government!!
and to this end believe that Helen (if she hasn’t already) needs to sink her pride (or is that a tactic?) and actually cordially INVITE Tariana et al to meet and discuss the matter.
Both Labour and Maori have indicated that they were open to talks with everyone. (I wonder, have the Greens have discussed this with Helen?)
Maybe Winston is making demands with Helen over Maori (and Green)?
All mere supposition… What do others think?
eredwen
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Tony Milne:
I agree!
eredwen
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I feel betrayed by Helen Clark.
This is far from the first time, over the past 20 years… Yet each time (until now), in the ensuing years, I have felt a sort of awe-filled respect for her pragmatism and long view.
If she had left Labour with Anderton, NZ would be a different place today, and not a better one, I think.
So what’s she playing at now? She wants to avoid forming a government purely of the left, because that would taint Labour’s centrist appeal, and open it to attrition in the direction of the centrist parties at the next election.
However, she seems to be willing to pay an extraordinarily high price to achieve this (it’s true that Brash has ably raised the stakes) — a blown budget, a ministry for Peters, and still no guarantee to see out the term with him.
In fact it’s hard to imagine a scenario where a Clark/Peters government runs a full term. He will seek to trap her into a crisis, with ever-increasing demands. If she caves, then his credit will increase; if she lets him walk, then she could, no doubt, patch up a left coalition to see out the term, but again, he would have a good chance of increasing his vote.
She might, in the final analysis, prefer a LPGM government — it would be consistent with her principles, in contradiction with her pragmatism, but really the best guarantee of three years of stable government.
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So, what can the Greens do?
Bugger-all really.
One thing that we should make clear : if Clark envisages a government with Peters and Dunne, without us, then we should vote it down. Promises of eternal fidelity are generally considered null and void when you come home and find your partner in bed with someone else.
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we might be off the mark a bit using the 2002 election results to gauge the core green vote. It’s clear that this time around there was some importance in Labour having a larger vote on the night than National (or the other way around for that matter…). This was hardly the case in 2002; National were not a credible contender to form a goverment and I would hazard a guess that the increase in support the greens got was the fallout from the alliance dropping off the radar.
I would not have brought myself to vote Labour but I still think that the outcome was as close to ideal as you could get considering the very fine line that exists between the Greens shedding enough support to Labour for them to be the majority, and the Greens remaining above the 5% threshhold.
I don’t think that those votes went to Labour because the Greens were in danger of dipping below 5%, and I think that this result demonstrates that the core support under trying circumstances is still there, /not/ that it has dropped.
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yes blacksand…but the danger is 0.3% of that core turning away in disgust at the compromises made to support/sustain a labour/nz first government…
then it is a matter of ‘goodnight irene..’
yes alistair…the greens are in that familiar post-election relatively powerless position…(ready to be a green-tinted handbag for clark and peters..?..oh joy..!..)
(once again..those policy gains had better be bloody impressive…)
somehow..i think this green party ethos of blind alliegance to labour isn’t serving us at all well..eh..?..
i don’t have a pat answer to that conundrum…but it is something we should be talking about/working on…y’know..the old mantra..’neither left nor right..but out in front’….we need to translate that into a reality… before the green party can gain the power/size required to do the job…..
somehow a more independent green stance needs to be worked on…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Point is, the Greens are going to be around long after Peters and Dunne are gone, and they know it.
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but the danger is 0.3% of that core turning away in disgust at the compromises made to support/sustain a labour/nz first government…
I find that I agree in this. In spite that I generally argue that we have to reword policies and have policies that make the mainstream Kiwi comfortable with our ideas. That’s how we get above 10% firm… we ATTRACT the center, not move into it.
But the question now isn’t policies but principles. Core support could be lost WITHOUT any potential gains.
Now that we’ve had the election and it’s an indeterminate but likely longish time til the next, it is time to stick to those principles.
We cannot ever be seen as independent until we can be seen as capable of governing without labour.
respectfully
BJ
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Respectfully, BJ, you really haven’t understood the political system here yet!
No, the Greens are not going to supplant Labour, and gain an absolute majority in parliament. Ever. Forget about that idea.
However, in order to be respected, if Labour makes a deal with both NZF and UF, then the Greens should be in opposition. Not with National and Act, but a principled, loyal, left-wing opposition. A centrist government ought logically to have an opposition on each side.
That, I believe, is the only position that can gain us respect in the current situation. It hardly matters what policy deals are made; with no ministers to see them carried out, and some ministers actively working against them, Green policies will only be a source of further frustration and humiliation under a centrist government.
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What would “being in opposition” entail? If it meant not supporting the Government on confidence and supply, and the Government fell, the Greens would probably not have any seats at the ensuing election.
If it meant speaking out and voting against policies that Greens consider harmful, then I hope we would do that anyway. That is the freedom of not being in coalition.
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alistair..”..No, the Greens are not going to supplant Labour, and gain an absolute majority in parliament. Ever. Forget about that idea…”
alistair ..you show a refreshing optimism re the status quo of the various political parties..
a read of new zealand political history will show that parties come and parties go…..
if i felt the green party was doomed to some relatively irrelevant rump role forever..i wouldn’t have suppported/voted for them for the last nine years or so…
can you not see the inevitable changes time/effort brings, and the growing relevance of the green message, as harbingers of an eventual/possible ascension..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil
I’m not sure about ‘the inevitable changes time/effort brings’ you express. In 1975, Values Party [Green heritage] scored 5.3% of the popular vote. In 2005, Greens get 5.3% of the popular vote.
I see no inevitable changes in the attraction of Green policies. I see stagnation. Greens have been preaching compost heaps and worm farms to the converted for 30 years.
How do we get ourselves out of being an idealist movement that can become a political force in its own right?
Yes, it’s nice to say Green philosophies are entering the thinking of other parties, but, if that’s all we achieve after nearly a third of a century, we should just become a Green thinktank and join the ranks of the Business Roundtable, Maxim and other groups peddling a particular spin.
I’d like to think Greens can grow as a political force for good, can begin to draw defectors from both the left and right, and become the middle ground party of the future.
To [mis]quote Brash, ‘being Green is mainstream’ and it’s the other parties who have extreme, crazy and dangerously outmoded ideas about how to govern our islands.
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Alistair
“Being capable of” is not the same as getting the votes or having the ambition to do so.
My comment has to do with the perceived maturity of the party. My intended meaning is basically that we do not get the respect we need because we have locked in the mindset “We are a fringe group and we don’t have to think about all the actual problems a government faces” .
THAT DOES NOT WORK for most voters. “What am I getting as an immigration policy if the Greens have a say in it?” “What am I getting as an defence policy if the Greens have a say in it?”
If you leave the questions unanswered then someone else (E.B.) will fill in the blanks. It costs us. It even costs labour, as our “soft target” allows attacks to wash over on their demographic too.
If we really want to stick to the fringes and play along the shore of the big river we certainly can do so. I have pointed out repeatedly that this is dangerous and the latest near-death experience should be kept in mind… and for most of your post I agree with your point.
However, with all due respect… I don’t think we managed a successful communication of my intended meaning into your understanding
… which is probably at least PARTLY my fault. Sorry.
Finally…
No, the Greens are not going to supplant Labour, and gain an absolute majority in parliament. Ever. Forget about that idea.
In the long run, if Labour adopts Green ideas and ideals, it becomes the “Green” party… and we become the majority. If the environment and peak oil show us to be correct most of the time in this area, we could very easily reach a point where IF we’ve done our homework, we are co-equal or senior members of a Green-Labour coalition. That could be in as little as 2 decades. It would not be in the next election. I doubt however, that with MMP there will be many (if any) absolute majorities.
respectfully
BJ
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Greengage :
Being in opposition means not voting the budget, and not voting confidence in the government. If Clark presents a ministry with Peters and Dunne in it, and no Greens, I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that the Greens have no confidence in that government.
As it happens, the Greens could not bring such a government down — it would have 61 seats without the Greens. And that is precisely why it would be pointless for the Greens to be bound into supporting such a government — there would be no dividend in doing so, since the support is numerically superfluous.
There’s a limit. The Greens will earn nothing but contempt for sticking around where they are not wanted.
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