Frog, why move on from business? We’d better make business and a whole lot of other policy issues our business damned fast, or be consigned to a footnote in future NZ political history books.
BJ is spot on with his comments. So is dbuckley.
I’ve posted this before and repeat, how come after six years in parliament, no common ground was built with the business sector?
How come no common ground was built with individual journalists and commentators?
How come no common ground was built on too many things that now serve to position us as an unknown entity?
It’s over 30 years since the Values Party first articulated our values within a political context, and these Green values have even found a place in Parliament under MMP.
So, we’ve had 30 years to show business, media and voters we’re not to be scared of, and we’ve failed.
Why?
BJ is so right. We came within 0.3% of zero representation. There’s nothing there to congraulate ourselves with.
We should be tearing into those who planned this campaign, those who set the criteria for candidates, those who didn’t think policies on too many issues were necessary, those who targeted the wrong voter groups….and find time to rebuild, refresh ourselves and begin finding common ground with the 94.7% of voters who rejected our message.
I’ve also said it before here, either we Greens become a political force for good whilst maintaining our principles and values, or we go back into the disparate protest and issue groups from which we’ve barely emerged.
We’ve got 3 years to get it right, and the 2008 campaign begins now.

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Eredwen

The green party may move in its own mysterious ways, and I in no wise expect it to “conform” by the way, but if coming within 0.2% of having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING isn’t a wake up call, then I do not know what is. You can blame it on MMP if you like, I don’t think the green voters are in general, that naive. It shouldn’t BE that close.

I ask damned little of Greens in the way of real change, but the difference between a “green defence policy” and “no defence policy” should not be merely a matter of spelling. That’s fundamental. Greens are not taken seriously by the mainstream because Greens do not take some very serious issues on board at all. It marginalizes us. A link on the website from “tax” to “eco-tax” might make sense too.

Similarly there are business and trade issues on which we might appear to be willing to create major disruptions to NZ terms of trade. We have to be willing to recognize that controlling NZ business has limits imposed by the rest of the world on those businesses as well. I could give a stuff what Kerr and others call me, idiots that they are, but if our policies recognize the need to keep manufacture and export capabilities for New Zealand AND THEY GENERALLY DO, then we should be able to manage this without troubling our basic principles.

I haven’t been around long enough to know what the punters were worked up about 5 years ago… Greens ARE the first to find problems, our time horizon is an order of magnitude greater than most people’s, but that doesn’t excuse the stuff for which we don’t bother to even figure out a policy.

The “fantasy” is real enough. I don’t know what is so threatening about permitting the incarceration of people who hurt other people, or having policies that recognize the limitations both of New Zealand and Politics in general.

I doubt that I have the power to alter the course that the Greens take. I have no time to devote to this sort of exercise, but I am concerned that you are so resistant to even a small degree of accomodation for the rest of the world.

That’s part of what scares the businesscritters.

Do you also wish the return of the “Alliance”… and could someone please explain how it relates to greens in NZ for me?

Eredwen, you and a lot of other Greens are feeling this relief and “up” sort of emotion because we survived and we’re going to be represented for the next 3 years. The problem is that you’re not focusing on just how narrowly we avoided disaster and the reasons for THAT. MMP has been around for 3 elections now. There’s scant room for the argument that people are dumb about their votes. Some might be, but the problem we face is that with the environment getting the attention even of muleheaded jackasses like Bush we should have scored a lot more points. Nandor should be going back to parliament.

Losing because we reckon that our defence can be handled by international agencies that can’t sneeze without 100 nations giving their permission, and we don’t need a policy cause we aren’t interested. It isn’t wisdom.

We can do better.
We can do better without compromising basic principles.
We really need to do better.

respectfully
BJ

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So BJchip and dbuckley think the message is “get the Greens to “conform” in case the general punters think “Green = extreme” ?

Firstly, things that the general punters found objectionable a few years ago are now accepted as mainstream or “common sense” … and many (choose to) forget and some realise that the Greens alerted people to the problem(s).

Secondly, Greens are polite, articulate, direct and inclusive. Their communication skills are excellent. Much of the “poor image” of the Greens is a fantasy, or a deliberate false image projected by those who don’t understand, or choose to misunderstand for their own reasons (often vested interest) …

There are a growing number who quietly approve of the Greens (and, increasingly, vote Green.)

In this election many people who support the Greens, party-voted Labour to be sure National did not become the government. The unfortunate mistake, that would have gained Nandor his seat, was the high numbers who candidate-voted Green and party-voted Labour or someone else.

I believe it would be more productive for those who want to help, to use their energies to ensure that voters are educated in how to vote MMP tactically, rather than advise a “makeover job” on the Green Image …

The Green Party will no doubt continue to “move in its own mysterious way(s) …” You can add the rest of the quote!

eredwen

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Frog, do not “move on” from this topic, it is certainly one of the biggest issues facing green politics and thus the Green Party in NZ.

BJ is, as generally, pretty much on the ball on this issue. In my opinion, the Green Party needs to figure out how to be, at the least, inoffensive to business and voters, and this is, as someone said a day or two back, going to mean compromise. You need to pick the right battles to fight, and those upon which it is better to say nothing, even though in a perfect world you should fight them all.

The next three years are make or break time guys, make it count, dont waste my vote. Its not enough to be right – you need (and we need you) to make a difference.

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WHA-A-A-T ?

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Near Death Experience Frog… Kick back and relax some of the idealistic fervor, manage core competencies and keep the customer satisfied.

The voting public is the paying customer. Ignore that at your peril.

The other customer we have… well that’s the whole planet. Not well served by us marginalizing ourselves.

respectfully
BJ

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Did you ever read Monbiot’s piece in the Guardian frog:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1573772,00.html

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