Comments on: Quote of the day http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:32:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: RedGreen http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6550 RedGreen Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:26:54 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6550 ishy: Espousing laissez-faire? Oh haha hell no...absolutely not! :-D What I meant was that if one were to take the time and trouble to read Ayn Rand's works carefully, one would be able to find more holes in it than a sponge. Sorry bjchip and ishy if I came across as touting the soundess of her philosophy! :-P Perhaps I could've worded my statement better... My point is that if people were to read and understand the philosophical underpinnings of laissez-faire capitalism - best exemplified and epitomised in Rand's works - people would actually realise that the philosophies of ACT, Libertarianz and free-marketeers are rather convoluted and highly flawed, not to mention rather repulsive. In a way I'm glad I was once a member of the Libertarianz, because my experience interacting and conversing with various puritan free-marketeers has given me a valuable insight into the minds of laissez-faire advocates, their objectives, their rationale, their motivations and so on. Sometimes the best way to defeat your enemy is to infiltrate them, and use their weapons against them. :-P ishy:

Espousing laissez-faire? Oh haha hell no…absolutely not! :-D What I meant was that if one were to take the time and trouble to read Ayn Rand’s works carefully, one would be able to find more holes in it than a sponge.

Sorry bjchip and ishy if I came across as touting the soundess of her philosophy! :-P Perhaps I could’ve worded my statement better…

My point is that if people were to read and understand the philosophical underpinnings of laissez-faire capitalism – best exemplified and epitomised in Rand’s works – people would actually realise that the philosophies of ACT, Libertarianz and free-marketeers are rather convoluted and highly flawed, not to mention rather repulsive.

In a way I’m glad I was once a member of the Libertarianz, because my experience interacting and conversing with various puritan free-marketeers has given me a valuable insight into the minds of laissez-faire advocates, their objectives, their rationale, their motivations and so on.

Sometimes the best way to defeat your enemy is to infiltrate them, and use their weapons against them. :-P

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]]> By: ishy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6543 ishy Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:33:56 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6543 oh hang on, RedGreen are you espousing laissez-faire?? I think the idea that Hedonism begets wide-range benefits is far too short-sighted. To an extent yes..but when the laissez-faire frame of mind is used exclusively to adopt policies centred only toward materialistic goals then the 'common good' surely is marginalised....what of those ill-represented. and as laissez-faire is materialistically based surely it is very hard to argue that people with abundant materials are over represented, therefore it isn't 'mutually' beneficial but 'exclusively beneficial. The great tragedy of economics interpreting Adam Smiths old philosophy is the marginalisation of 'perfect competition'. Of course for the maximum benefits toward society all groups must be equally represented..I challenge anyone to argue that laissez-faire tends toward equal representation in anything other than maybe political enfranchisement..BTW useless unless the parties you can vote for are equally represented. I have not read this book but i have been an economics and finance student all throughuni and have heard all these familiar arguments...but remain unconvinced oh hang on, RedGreen are you espousing laissez-faire??
I think the idea that Hedonism begets wide-range benefits is far too short-sighted. To an extent yes..but when the laissez-faire frame of mind is used exclusively to adopt policies centred only toward materialistic goals then the ‘common good’ surely is marginalised….what of those ill-represented. and as laissez-faire is materialistically based surely it is very hard to argue that people with abundant materials are over represented, therefore it isn’t ‘mutually’ beneficial but ‘exclusively beneficial.
The great tragedy of economics interpreting Adam Smiths old philosophy is the marginalisation of ‘perfect competition’. Of course for the maximum benefits toward society all groups must be equally represented..I challenge anyone to argue that laissez-faire tends toward equal representation in anything other than maybe political enfranchisement..BTW useless unless the parties you can vote for are equally represented.
I have not read this book but i have been an economics and finance student all throughuni and have heard all these familiar arguments…but remain unconvinced

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]]> By: ishy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6540 ishy Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:21:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6540 i think it may be true..sorry no clever quote i tried hard..but too mny concussions.. those converted are more expressive than those who have always accepted. BJ and RedGreen you sound like you're in the same position i was in hard out money hngry, im sorry from interest what 'turned' you. i think it may be true..sorry no clever quote i tried hard..but too mny concussions.. those converted are more expressive than those who have always accepted.
BJ and RedGreen you sound like you’re in the same position i was in hard out money hngry, im sorry from interest what ‘turned’ you.

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]]> By: peterquixote http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6532 peterquixote Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:14:43 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6532 naah he only say ""maybe not dwive"", fascists say maybe, maybe, maybe, we just dwive the v8 down see what happen on kaweangahappy road, naah he only say “”maybe not dwive”", fascists say maybe, maybe, maybe, we just dwive the v8 down see what happen on kaweangahappy road,

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]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6521 bjchip Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:59:03 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6521 RedGreen Nope - I read Ayn Rand and in time recognized that her philosophy and my sophomore year at University were fairly well matched. I've learned better about laissez-faire and the "virtues" of capitalists in general. The flawed assumptions about the law, the capitalist's relationship to it, and the even larger profits available to those who cheat, make her work unpalatable at best now. :-) She spins a decent yarn though. respectfully BJ RedGreen

Nope – I read Ayn Rand and in time recognized that her philosophy and my sophomore year at University were fairly well matched. I’ve learned better about laissez-faire and the “virtues” of capitalists in general. The flawed assumptions about the law, the capitalist’s relationship to it, and the even larger profits available to those who cheat, make her work unpalatable at best now. :-)

She spins a decent yarn though.

respectfully
BJ

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]]> By: RedGreen http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6498 RedGreen Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:47:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6498 Chris: As a former member of the Libertarianz, a party which makes the likes of ACT and the Business Roundtable look like 'hippies', I can assure you that selfishness (or pure and unincumbered self-interest, if you like it put more euphemistically) and desirable, mutually beneficial outcomes (such as the common good) are virtually mutually exclusive. Read Ayn Rand's 'The Virtue of Selfishness' - the Bible of laissez-faire capitalism - with an open mind (yes I'm willing to be magnanimous) and you will see the light. ;-) Chris:

As a former member of the Libertarianz, a party which makes the likes of ACT and the Business Roundtable look like ‘hippies’, I can assure you that selfishness (or pure and unincumbered self-interest, if you like it put more euphemistically) and desirable, mutually beneficial outcomes (such as the common good) are virtually mutually exclusive.

Read Ayn Rand’s ‘The Virtue of Selfishness’ – the Bible of laissez-faire capitalism – with an open mind (yes I’m willing to be magnanimous) and you will see the light. ;-)

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]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6485 bjchip Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:10:45 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6485 Cheney et.al. want to use it as a wedge to stomp on the NIMBY opposition to nuclear power plants. They are also a bit concerned that if the oil company profits go any higher they may be hammered into coughing some of those profits back up in some manner by public opinion. Likely the major players are well invested in the N-Power developers as well. That's their purpose in having Bush say it. As for Dubya thinking of it hisself, just put that out of your head. They don't let him out without a keeper anymore. respectfully BJ Cheney et.al. want to use it as a wedge to stomp on the NIMBY opposition to nuclear power plants. They are also a bit concerned that if the oil company profits go any higher they may be hammered into coughing some of those profits back up in some manner by public opinion. Likely the major players are well invested in the N-Power developers as well.

That’s their purpose in having Bush say it.

As for Dubya thinking of it hisself, just put that out of your head. They don’t let him out without a keeper anymore.

respectfully
BJ

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]]> By: trevor http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6482 trevor Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:17:37 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6482 Chris, still touting the virtues of unfettered capitalism around the place? The occasional and accidental intersection of selfish intentions with positive outcomes is hardly illuminating. Chris, still touting the virtues of unfettered capitalism around the place?
The occasional and accidental intersection of selfish intentions with positive outcomes is hardly illuminating.

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]]> By: ChrisBishop http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6466 ChrisBishop Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:20:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6466 Christiaan: Sorry, what? Christiaan: Sorry, what?

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]]> By: Christiaan http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6458 Christiaan Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:26:02 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6458 Capitalism... hmm.. yes.. that authoratarian institution that might have managed to start seeing the light 30 years after democratic, but economically powerless institutions, had already seen the light. Possibly 30 years too late. Capitalism… hmm.. yes.. that authoratarian institution that might have managed to start seeing the light 30 years after democratic, but economically powerless institutions, had already seen the light. Possibly 30 years too late.

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]]> By: Greg Stephens http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6457 Greg Stephens Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:17:58 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6457 If Bush said it, it's got to be wrong. Screw the bus, I'm buying a 4WD to burn petrol in. If Bush said it, it’s got to be wrong. Screw the bus, I’m buying a 4WD to burn petrol in.

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]]> By: yellowperil http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6447 yellowperil Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:52:50 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6447 His full statement refers to his desire to move towards 'nucular' energy as the way of the future. His full statement refers to his desire to move towards ‘nucular’ energy as the way of the future.

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]]> By: ChrisBishop http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6444 ChrisBishop Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:29:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6444 not here: You just summed up capitalism. Cool isn't it, when you see the light? not here:

You just summed up capitalism. Cool isn’t it, when you see the light?

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]]> By: Expat http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6443 Expat Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:17:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6443 As George Monbiot explains in today's Guardian, Bush has been supplied with some interesting reports on peak oil recently. Perhaps that's what is behind this statement? http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1578864,00.html As George Monbiot explains in today’s Guardian, Bush has been supplied with some interesting reports on peak oil recently. Perhaps that’s what is behind this statement?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1578864,00.html

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]]> By: not here http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6442 not here Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:06:30 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6442 I can't help thinking his motives are more selfish. Though, if selfish motives get good results that can't be a bad thing. I can’t help thinking his motives are more selfish.
Though, if selfish motives get good results that can’t be a bad thing.

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]]> By: eredwen http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6441 eredwen Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:52:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6441 That is ... if he actually thought of it himself. That is … if he actually thought of it himself.

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]]> By: greenboy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6439 greenboy Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:46:54 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6439 There might just be something in that head of his after all. There might just be something in that head of his after all.

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]]> By: Expat http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6438 Expat Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:26:21 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/index.php/2005/09/27/quote-of-the-day/#comment-6438 Reminds me of the time during the first Gulf War when his dad asked Americans to leave their second and third cars at home to conserve fuel. Reminds me of the time during the first Gulf War when his dad asked Americans to leave their second and third cars at home to conserve fuel.

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