Comments on: The fork in the road http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:27:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2917 bjchip Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:40:57 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2917 Toa No, I didn't miss your point. The coal should stay in the ground. That's not likely to make the Chinese maker of Aluminium happy, but we can export our Aluminium, refined by electricity gathered from the wind. That's the point for me... I don't believe in burning fossil fuels. Not here, not there, not anywhere. respectfully BJ Toa

No, I didn’t miss your point. The coal should stay in the ground.

That’s not likely to make the Chinese maker of Aluminium happy, but we can export our Aluminium, refined by electricity gathered from the wind. That’s the point for me… I don’t believe in burning fossil fuels. Not here, not there, not anywhere.

respectfully
BJ

]]> By: mugwump http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2913 mugwump Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:26:05 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2913 Perhaps if we weren't grossly subsidising the energy used by large power consumers like Fonterra and Comalco, then the situation would be better. It seems ludicrous that while consumers pay 15¢ per kWh, that Fonterra can have hundred Megawatt boilers turning milk into milk powder, and pay only 5¢ per kWh. Especially given the world market is awash with milk, and in fact there are governments who pay their farmers *not* to grow milk. Let's be clear about that - it isn't mostly domestic use of power that is fast depleting the Maui gas field. I'm not saying that we should pull the plug on these industries, let's just stop subsidising their power use as a first step. Perhaps if we weren’t grossly subsidising the energy used by large power consumers like Fonterra and Comalco, then the situation would be better.

It seems ludicrous that while consumers pay 15¢ per kWh, that Fonterra can have hundred Megawatt boilers turning milk into milk powder, and pay only 5¢ per kWh. Especially given the world market is awash with milk, and in fact there are governments who pay their farmers *not* to grow milk.

Let’s be clear about that - it isn’t mostly domestic use of power that is fast depleting the Maui gas field.

I’m not saying that we should pull the plug on these industries, let’s just stop subsidising their power use as a first step.

]]> By: Toa Greening http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2911 Toa Greening Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:01:45 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2911 Morning BJ, Unfortunately you have missed my point entirely. In both scenarios NZ coal will still be exported overseas and used by countries (the Third World) that have little/no environment laws. If we use more coal in NZ in the latest eco-friendly designed stations (ICGCC) then we export less overseas to countries with standard coal stations. In fact by supporting scenario B you inadvertently support all of NZ coal being exported overseas and subsequently more coal toxins being released into the global environment. No I am not being a Troll on the topic but just trying to get a reasonable answer to this, as it seems this issue is being ignored. Cheers Toa Morning BJ,

Unfortunately you have missed my point entirely. In both scenarios NZ coal will still be exported overseas and used by countries (the Third World) that have little/no environment laws. If we use more coal in NZ in the latest eco-friendly designed stations (ICGCC) then we export less overseas to countries with standard coal stations.

In fact by supporting scenario B you inadvertently support all of NZ coal being exported overseas and subsequently more coal toxins being released into the global environment. No I am not being a Troll on the topic but just trying to get a reasonable answer to this, as it seems this issue is being ignored.

Cheers Toa

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2895 bjchip Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:15:01 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2895 Toa If you read it thoroughly you'd note that coal is a main source in scenario A, not B, and if you have any understanding of the environmental movement, you know that the use of coal is anathema to us. In other words, you're trolling :-) Greens however, will never lobby for the use of coal... anywhere. Scenario B is the one that the Greens back and is a not unrealistic view of how renewables and conservation can get together to make this country work without burning dead dinosaurs. respectfully BJ Toa

If you read it thoroughly you’d note that coal is a main source in scenario A, not B, and if you have any understanding of the environmental movement, you know that the use of coal is anathema to us. In other words, you’re trolling :-) Greens however, will never lobby for the use of coal… anywhere.

Scenario B is the one that the Greens back and is a not unrealistic view of how renewables and conservation can get together to make this country work without burning dead dinosaurs.

respectfully
BJ

]]> By: Toa Greening http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2877 Toa Greening Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:52:13 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2877 I read the Technical document and it seemed very good. I noted that as expected Coal generation will be the main source of future electricity capacity. The Greens Energy Policy does not discuss coal. Currently the majority of NZ coal (of which we have vast amounts of) is being used overseas. Many of these countries are not as environmentally aware as NZ and consequently release the numerous coal toxins as well as CO2. The Greens should really be lobbying for Integrated Coal Gasification Combined Cycle stations in NZ so that more NZ coal is used in our electricity generation and less used overseas? That way we can solve our electricity capacity issues and also reduce the amount of coal toxins being released into the environment by overseas purchasers of NZ coal. My only only disclaimer is that these stations not be built in South Auckland as we already have all of the Auckland regional NIMBY's. I read the Technical document and it seemed very good. I noted that as expected Coal generation will be the main source of future electricity capacity. The Greens Energy Policy does not discuss coal. Currently the majority of NZ coal (of which we have vast amounts of) is being used overseas. Many of these countries are not as environmentally aware as NZ and consequently release the numerous coal toxins as well as CO2. The Greens should really be lobbying for Integrated Coal Gasification Combined Cycle stations in NZ so that more NZ coal is used in our electricity generation and less used overseas? That way we can solve our electricity capacity issues and also reduce the amount of coal toxins being released into the environment by overseas purchasers of NZ coal. My only only disclaimer is that these stations not be built in South Auckland as we already have all of the Auckland regional NIMBY’s.

]]> By: musbee http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2874 musbee Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:35:12 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2874 Hmm, good to see, as you say, Joy; in the comments to another posting, Craig Ranapia has just commented that Greens haven't made any real difference in parliament or to policy, whereas Act have made far more. Well, I'm not sure about that, I think much of the Green's influence in the last few elections has simply been keeping all these ideas in the public mind, even if they haven't made a huge change yet. The problem is that Greens have to, by nature, sell huge change to a public who are happy with the status quo. It was always going to be an uphill battle... Hmm, good to see, as you say, Joy; in the comments to another posting, Craig Ranapia has just commented that Greens haven’t made any real difference in parliament or to policy, whereas Act have made far more. Well, I’m not sure about that, I think much of the Green’s influence in the last few elections has simply been keeping all these ideas in the public mind, even if they haven’t made a huge change yet. The problem is that Greens have to, by nature, sell huge change to a public who are happy with the status quo. It was always going to be an uphill battle…

]]> By: joy http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2871 joy Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:34:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/07/29/the-fork-in-the-road/#comment-2871 Energy, transport, water, junk food, peacekeeping: all Green visons and policies becoming mainstream? Looking good. Joy. Energy, transport, water, junk food, peacekeeping: all Green visons and policies becoming mainstream? Looking good. Joy.

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