Comments on: Clean cars http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:03:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: tommygun http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-3424 tommygun Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:06:25 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-3424 Inefficient commuters that use SUVs and such already pay more for petrol of course, but I don't think that's enough. I believe that the yearly licensing costs for city vehicles should be broken into three cost tiers. The most expensive (say double current rate) would apply to SUVs but perhaps since some people need these for other than mainly just commuting there could be some exemptions. This higher registration cost would also perhaps apply to bigger cars (3 litres and up), you know the big V8 commodores and such. 'Normal' cars would have the same licencing costs and fuel efficient cars, including (efficient) hybrids would be cheaper to licence, effectively being subsidised by SUVs. Also, I think for the time being, electric mopeds which have huge potential to cut pollution and reduce congestion should only have a nomiminal licencing fee to encourage use. Inefficient commuters that use SUVs and such already pay more for petrol of course, but I don’t think that’s enough. I believe that the yearly licensing costs for city vehicles should be broken into three cost tiers. The most expensive (say double current rate) would apply to SUVs but perhaps since some people need these for other than mainly just commuting there could be some exemptions. This higher registration cost would also perhaps apply to bigger cars (3 litres and up), you know the big V8 commodores and such. ‘Normal’ cars would have the same licencing costs and fuel efficient cars, including (efficient) hybrids would be cheaper to licence, effectively being subsidised by SUVs. Also, I think for the time being, electric mopeds which have huge potential to cut pollution and reduce congestion should only have a nomiminal licencing fee to encourage use.

]]> By: phil u http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-714 phil u Tue, 31 May 2005 14:59:24 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-714 i've just tried living in auckland without a car..18 months or so..living in the centre of the city means being at the hub of the public transport network and therefor in the best position to make it work for you.. but even living there, it sucks, in all ways..service and cost of course being the main culprits..and forget about the trains..one a bloody hour or something..? the boy playing soccer is what has broken me and sent me back to a car.. winter weeknight practices..then bussing home?..games all over auckland..aarrgghh..it all became too much... i would agree with pauls' comment of an aspect of stueys formula...it is multi-crippling to be in auckland, poor, with no car.. and far be it from me to query is this a case of do as i say, not as i do..? i was very grateful to get a lift home from a green party 'do' in sth auckland from stuey, in his van...:) phil(whoar.co.nz) i’ve just tried living in auckland without a car..18 months or so..living in the centre of the city means being at the hub of the public transport network and therefor in the best position to make it work for you..

but even living there, it sucks, in all ways..service and cost of course being the main culprits..and forget about the trains..one a bloody hour or something..?

the boy playing soccer is what has broken me and sent me back to a car..

winter weeknight practices..then bussing home?..games all over auckland..aarrgghh..it all became too much…

i would agree with pauls’ comment of an aspect of stueys formula…it is multi-crippling to be in auckland, poor, with no car..

and far be it from me to query is this a case of do as i say, not as i do..?

i was very grateful to get a lift home from a green party ‘do’ in sth auckland from stuey, in his van…:)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

]]> By: Paul B http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-710 Paul B Tue, 31 May 2005 10:56:21 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-710 stuey: what if none of those are avalible to a family? Lack of skill sets would make changing jobs difficult; inability to change work hours and lack of public transport at certain hours - there goes that; lack of work mates in the area to car-pool with; not being able to afford a move and living way to far to consider walk/bike; etc. Plus some of these changes could take considerable time. Yeah, it's not likely that anyone would have all of these barriers to change, but this would still be a burden to low income families, at least in the short-to-med term. stuey: what if none of those are avalible to a family? Lack of skill sets would make changing jobs difficult; inability to change work hours and lack of public transport at certain hours - there goes that; lack of work mates in the area to car-pool with; not being able to afford a move and living way to far to consider walk/bike; etc. Plus some of these changes could take considerable time.
Yeah, it’s not likely that anyone would have all of these barriers to change, but this would still be a burden to low income families, at least in the short-to-med term.

]]> By: fastbike http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-701 fastbike Mon, 30 May 2005 20:19:41 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-701 tselwyn said: "What about catalytic converters?" Yes, what about cats. They reduce local pollution (unburnt hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen) but do not increase overall fuel efficiency. In fact, some studies indicate they may adversely affect fuel consumption, thus increasing CO2 emissions. They are another example of an "end of pipe" solution. Far better to reduce car use, I sold my car in 1991 and have been happily car-free since then. and Paul B said: "... an old exercycle hooked up to a generator to charge electric cars ... Battery powered mopeds. You could charge them up with peddle power while stationary" Given that a fit person can continously output approx 100W, and your average car has an engine rated in excess of 30kW, think how long you would need to peddle to provide power for the 1km drive to the shops. With the moped you may be closer to a solution, but the ratio of stationary pedalling to actual running time would most likely be unworkable. Far better just to use the bike to get yourself directly to where you want to go. tselwyn said: “What about catalytic converters?”

Yes, what about cats. They reduce local pollution (unburnt hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen) but do not increase overall fuel efficiency. In fact, some studies indicate they may adversely affect fuel consumption, thus increasing CO2 emissions. They are another example of an “end of pipe” solution. Far better to reduce car use, I sold my car in 1991 and have been happily car-free since then.

and Paul B said: “… an old exercycle hooked up to a generator to charge electric cars …
Battery powered mopeds. You could charge them up with peddle power while stationary”

Given that a fit person can continously output approx 100W, and your average car has an engine rated in excess of 30kW, think how long you would need to peddle to provide power for the 1km drive to the shops.
With the moped you may be closer to a solution, but the ratio of stationary pedalling to actual running time would most likely be unworkable.

Far better just to use the bike to get yourself directly to where you want to go.

]]> By: tselwyn http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-700 tselwyn Mon, 30 May 2005 08:51:59 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-700 What about catalytic converters? What about catalytic converters?

]]> By: BernardWoolley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-699 BernardWoolley Mon, 30 May 2005 08:47:18 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-699 Actually, I'd just take the traffic light system a step towards its logical conclusion. Green has now tax levied. Yellow has a lower rate and red is the full rate. This money then goes to alternative energy research and education for alternative methods of transport and means of reducing use of vehicles (where possible and practical). Actually, I’d just take the traffic light system a step towards its logical conclusion. Green has now tax levied. Yellow has a lower rate and red is the full rate. This money then goes to alternative energy research and education for alternative methods of transport and means of reducing use of vehicles (where possible and practical).

]]> By: BernardWoolley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-698 BernardWoolley Mon, 30 May 2005 08:43:58 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-698 I agree with the others that change in the excise duty won't really have an impact - it will make life harder on the poor and middle class and above will accept it as another Fact Of Life (tm). If you really want to have an impact, you need to incorporate it in at time of purchase so that it is part of the decision-making process in purchasing the vehicle. I'd suggest that every time a vehicle has ownership transferred in New Zealand of vehicles in a certain class (SUV's, gas guzzlers etc) - a tax (as a % of transaction price) is made as a disincentive for purchasing. On more efficient cars, there is of course no tax charged. This way you target only the 'bad' vehicles, and it is factored in with every vehicle purchase decision. You'd probably want to make it a % of the value of transaction. I agree with the others that change in the excise duty won’t really have an impact - it will make life harder on the poor and middle class and above will accept it as another Fact Of Life ™.

If you really want to have an impact, you need to incorporate it in at time of purchase so that it is part of the decision-making process in purchasing the vehicle. I’d suggest that every time a vehicle has ownership transferred in New Zealand of vehicles in a certain class (SUV’s, gas guzzlers etc) - a tax (as a % of transaction price) is made as a disincentive for purchasing. On more efficient cars, there is of course no tax charged. This way you target only the ‘bad’ vehicles, and it is factored in with every vehicle purchase decision. You’d probably want to make it a % of the value of transaction.

]]> By: stuey http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-696 stuey Mon, 30 May 2005 07:17:45 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-696 yes sock, raising petrol taxes may have the effect of financial hardship for low income families - hence why the Greens support at the same time removing all tax for the first 5000 of income - that would proportionately benefit the low income earners more. But it shouldn't necessarily follow that being forced to drive cars less will make life worse - there are a lot of choices that people can make, such as car-sharing, walking, cycling, public transport, moving closer to work/school, changing work/school, even driving in a fuel efficient manner. Only people who refuse to change will suffer. yes sock, raising petrol taxes may have the effect of financial hardship for low income families - hence why the Greens support at the same time removing all tax for the first 5000 of income - that would proportionately benefit the low income earners more.

But it shouldn’t necessarily follow that being forced to drive cars less will make life worse - there are a lot of choices that people can make, such as car-sharing, walking, cycling, public transport, moving closer to work/school, changing work/school, even driving in a fuel efficient manner. Only people who refuse to change will suffer.

]]> By: Paul B http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-695 Paul B Mon, 30 May 2005 06:47:39 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-695 I was thinking about using, say, an old exercycle hooked up to a generator to charge electric cars, which seems really redundant. But, something came to me: Battery powered mopeds. You could charge them up with peddle power while stationary, use peddles if the battery ran out (with the advantage of running in battery mode being speed), run them sortof 'charge as you go', even charge them up while waiting at intercetions and scare people. I personnaly would like to see stronger controls on emission standards. I get sick of walking in the direction of town and a) seeing a massive brown smog cloud over The Garden City (or is it, ha, 'Fresh Each Day' now?) b) breathing in some rather nasty fumes. While I'm on a rant, and speaking of rather nasty fumes, they can get rid of exisitng fireplaces on top of banning new installs. I don't know if it's just the way fireplaces are or if people don't know how to use them properly, but there are some STINKY 'peoples' out there. I was thinking about using, say, an old exercycle hooked up to a generator to charge electric cars, which seems really redundant. But, something came to me:

Battery powered mopeds. You could charge them up with peddle power while stationary, use peddles if the battery ran out (with the advantage of running in battery mode being speed), run them sortof ‘charge as you go’, even charge them up while waiting at intercetions and scare people.

I personnaly would like to see stronger controls on emission standards. I get sick of walking in the direction of town and a) seeing a massive brown smog cloud over The Garden City (or is it, ha, ‘Fresh Each Day’ now?) b) breathing in some rather nasty fumes.

While I’m on a rant, and speaking of rather nasty fumes, they can get rid of exisitng fireplaces on top of banning new installs. I don’t know if it’s just the way fireplaces are or if people don’t know how to use them properly, but there are some STINKY ‘peoples’ out there.

]]> By: dbuckley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-694 dbuckley Mon, 30 May 2005 04:43:40 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2005/05/30/clean-cars/#comment-694 'Tis almost funny. The Americans are now buying Hybrid cars, and have noted that the USA version of the Toyota Prius doesnt have the EV (electric vehicle) mode (where you charge the thing up from mains and run on purely batteries), only the hybrid mode. So, some environmentally minded folk are modifying their USA spec vehicles to have the EV mode, and are plugging the things in overnight for a charge. What brings a certain sense of irony is that these "environmentalists" are driving their cars on coal generated electricity, which is much worse in pulloution terms than the petrol power plant of the Prius itself... Scary what happens when environmentalists get enthusiastic.... ‘Tis almost funny.

The Americans are now buying Hybrid cars, and have noted that the USA version of the Toyota Prius doesnt have the EV (electric vehicle) mode (where you charge the thing up from mains and run on purely batteries), only the hybrid mode. So, some environmentally minded folk are modifying their USA spec vehicles to have the EV mode, and are plugging the things in overnight for a charge.

What brings a certain sense of irony is that these “environmentalists” are driving their cars on coal generated electricity, which is much worse in pulloution terms than the petrol power plant of the Prius itself… Scary what happens when environmentalists get enthusiastic….

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